Makeup artist against MAC/ MAC pushing independant artists out of the industry

[shygirl]

I just came across this site while searching for MAC Pro articles:
http://p082.ezboard.com/fmakeupandre....topic&index=6

I can only speak from a consumer's perspective. I like MAC because of it's quality and quantity, and not because I assumed make-up artists use MAC for popular models. I know that I'm not a professional and don't plan to become one. I'm simply fulfilling a dream of a little girl who snuck and played in her mom's make-up. I do sympathize with them, though.

[I love Brian Kinney]

Wow..some of their opinions of MAC are pretty harsh but I guess everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I personally know a few people who can't stand MAC and wont even come into the store with me when I look around. But I will always love MAC!

[MACgirl]

they are harsh but some are true, i love mac, and i belive i quality of thier products. As a freelance makeup artist i only use mac but not becuase of the name but because mac makeup actually does something for me and my clients. I dont see The mac vehicle slowing down soon and the only bad thing is that the quality of mac might be put to the test with so many color stories coming out so quickly, it doesnt give the consumer to buy any of the perm stuff which is great....

[litlaur]

They do bring up some interesting point, but some of those responses are a *tad* melodramatic.

[user4]

"MAC is great for MUA wannabees at this point."
"Again, this is just my opinion, as I am sure there are many out there who will argue with me and think that they are more bomb diggity than ever...."

WHAT I DONT UNDERSTAND IS WHY PEOPLE FEEL THE NEED TO SAY SHIT LIKE THIS AND DISRESPECT OTHER'S OPINIONS. PEOPLE CAN BE SO SELF INVOLVED IN THEIR LITTLE IM A MAKE UP ARTIST WORLD THAT THEY FORGET THAT THEY STARTED OFF IN THE SAME PLACE AS EVERYONE ELSE DID... STEALING THEIR MOMMY'S LIPSTICK WHEN THEY WERE 5!!! MAKES ME KINDA MAD!

[leppy]

Its a sad fact that whenever something becomes very popular there is a certain amount of backlash that is almost guaranteed.

Also I'm sure that MU artists, like any other specialized person want to feel like they are privy to certain information and products, like they are part of an exclusive group who "know better" than the masses.

Not everything MAC comes out with is great, some of it is not even good, but I can't help but think that if MAC was not so popular at this point, and had more exclusive to pro stores (and possibly if the average consumer was excluded from getting those products all together) than a fair number of those people would be singing a different tune.

Not to say that all of the negativity is invalid, I think we all know that MAC has stepped up their collections and new products, sometimes at the cost of quality or irregardless of quality. They've also come out with some truly great products in the past year or two as well though.

[PhonyBaloney500]

Youch someone called it a heartless backstabbing company! Wha??

[litlaur]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhonyBaloney500

Youch someone called it a heartless backstabbing company! Wha??

Exactly what I was talking about. Let me tell you, the things MAC has done to these people is a real "tragedy"...

[bluegrassbabe]

There are some valid points there, but it won't change my feelings for MAC. 10 yrs ago
I had a hodgepodge of about 6 brands of makeup in my case. When I found MAC those others just faded off into obscurity in my mind. The products would stay forever without sacrificing the feeling or the look. The e/s had textures like butter, so easy to work with. MAC is just fun. 100x more fun than any other line I had seen. I loved the kookiness of the names, counter people, the bizarre looking post cards. It has all the personality I haven't seen with other makeup lines and it is the reason I wanted to work as an MUA.
I have noticed the negative influence of the EL brand in the last few years. THe collections are coming out waay to fast now, and some of them aren't very interesting. The quality is lacking in some of the new products, but the classics are still as good as they ever were, IMO. Maybe my perspective is different because I am
pretty small time. I work in a small city where MU is not my primary income, but a
nice supplement.
I still love it, and have no plans to remove it from my kit anytime soon.

[SonRisa]

I actually agree with a lot of what was said :-X I'll post more on it later though . . .have to go to work.

[leppy]

I just now had time to go through the majority of the posts. I still say that some of it is the backlash thats unavoidable when something gets so mainstream, but it sounds like they have some pretty valid reasons for hating their corporate practice.

I guess being swallowed up by a big company & turning into a monster is unavoidable in our society. Bummer.

[lovemichelle]

This was very fun to read. I like these quotes:

Quote:

I hope no one feels powerless because we can truly make a change. Artists made MAC, Artists can break MAC (at least in the corrupt form that it exists in today). We don't have to just sit and watch the MUA's priceless place in this industry be minimized into oblivion.

I used to be sooo proud of the MAC name. "I work for MAC!" "I freelance for MAC" "Have you tried MAC"? "I have primarily MAC in my kit"! It is over :sad

I wish none of this were true but I know first hand that it is. I've seen the shade up close and I'm sad to see it isn't isolated.

Though the counter is behind me and I'm progressing well in the early stages of my MUA career I have still freelanced for MAC.

In addition to the embarrassingly lowest pay out there compared to other lines, they do as little as possible for their people. I also witnessed the "Artists" they send out to do shows. 2 ladies at one show were so new they were there earning their "certification", an impressive way of saying they were new employees earning the right to wear a piece of metal MAC jewelry. Not to belittle the actual people and there's still some talent left but the majority have truly become glorified cashiers - in my neck of the woods anyway.

A few times I've been reminded of how "out of touch" even the "higher ups" are with the real world of a working Freelance MUA. For example a Manager of the actual MAC store (not a counter) had no idea who a top name Agency was that I mentioned to her and though I explained my professional goals to her she keeps asking when I'm coming back to work for the company. How about NEVERUARY,2004!!!?

This is more lengthy than I intended. Though counseled (hi VIK) not to get MAC happy I still have quite a few MAC products in my kit (just got happy with the discount back then). I've since learned to "speak" many other Brands besides "MAC". I'll use up what I have and find superior substitutes for the favorites.

As for freelancing, after the jobs I'm scheduled for I'm going to stick to accepting assignments from another line.

In light of the various negative trends in this industry I'm so encouraged to see that integrity still lives here with many of you.

Crystal

Quote:

Artists have each person in their chair for 30 minutes to an hour each....almost everyone questions me about products...do you know how much MAC I have sold over the years? the minute we start telling people "no, MAC isnt for artists anymore" the impact will be felt, I promise you. Patience Patience Patience....

Quote:

Though I despise doing the trend shows that all of the department stores are producing, I always get a huge chuckle at the shoppers who run over to the LM or BB counters because some Cyndi Lauper-looking idiot at the MAC counter made them look like a pale clown. As usual, MAC hires a ton of 19 year-old girls who like to apply garrish makeup on themselves and the clients. And those, fortunately for the other lines, are the ones working these events. MAC doesn't hire "artists" anymore - they would rather groom these PYTs into little corporate look-a-likes. Somehow - whether Spring or Fall trend, they use lots of silver and navy. Which is so not a good look on most people... And the horrified clients come running to the actual artist brands to be "fixed".

[lovemichelle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sxychika1014

"MAC is great for MUA wannabees at this point."
"Again, this is just my opinion, as I am sure there are many out there who will argue with me and think that they are more bomb diggity than ever...."

WHAT I DONT UNDERSTAND IS WHY PEOPLE FEEL THE NEED TO SAY SHIT LIKE THIS AND DISRESPECT OTHER'S OPINIONS. PEOPLE CAN BE SO SELF INVOLVED IN THEIR LITTLE IM A MAKE UP ARTIST WORLD THAT THEY FORGET THAT THEY STARTED OFF IN THE SAME PLACE AS EVERYONE ELSE DID... STEALING THEIR MOMMY'S LIPSTICK WHEN THEY WERE 5!!! MAKES ME KINDA MAD!

You must be mad to use all those caps.

[martygreene]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonRisa

I actually agree with a lot of what was said :-X I'll post more on it later though . . .have to go to work.

I have a feeling we might be on the same page. I'll have to wait and see though.

[shygirl]

If I'm understanding their frustrations correctly, I think I can relate to being alienated.

I think rather than try to beat the competition, I think the MUAs should literally join the competition. They could probably use their situation and energy as motivators: to create their own make-up line, artists books, talent company, etc. Rather than critique MAC MUA and consumers, I would think of them in positive ways such as potential future employees, investors, eyes/ears, etc.).

[MACgirl]

Posting agian....

I just get so upset when people trash talk a brand ,that truly works. I was over at mac a few months ago and after that i went into a dept. store for perfume, well this other brand (nameless) starts telling me abotutheir products and im interested and i mgiving hi ma shot but then he says oh thats a mac bag and i said yes why and he start completely bad talking them and how he used to work for that "bad company" i told him bad talking other good makeup doesnt make me want to buy yours, i walked away. Its horrible the way these artists in those are saying that mac isnt a pro item anymore and what not. I bet they obssesed over an e/s that was comnig and stuff just lile all of us....TRUST ME though MAC is staying around for a loooooooooooooong time....its not gonig to slow down

[Demosthenes]

I like MAC, I do know that some items are better from other brands, but I like the company and what it stands for. They may not be as pro-artist like they have been in the past (pre Lauder) but they still help us so much, like with the discount (as far as I know, no other brands accessible to me have a similar program for makeup artists). They haven't taken any business away from local makeup artists but that's just my own location.

[Jude]

I am completely addicted to MAC started with Lancome and once I discovered MAC, Lancome was quickly given away and my crazed collection was started. I have only been into MAC for about a year. I really started around the time of Adorn and I believe that High Tea was my first experience with the whole collection anticipation thing. I have a crazy collector type personality. When I find something that I like, I have to have all of it so I came on mad strong when I started. Once a month, I was at my counter without fail and I would buy everything (foolishly). Then I discovered that the Pro Stores get the products a week early so of course, my routine was changed to taking the train into the city once a month for the new stuff.

So, I think I certify as a bonafide MACaholic and frankly, I am not quite sure that is a good thing...haha. When I first read that page, I was outraged. I mean, how DARE they talk about MAC like that but then when I thought about it, I kinda agree with a lot of what those ladies are saying. The monthly hype and speed of products that are released is like no other company I have ever seen. It's almost as if the company (EL) realizes that they are losing the artistic support and are feeding the masses to ensure it's place at the top.

I believe that the artistic backlash could be a dangerous thing and here is why. One of the greatest things about MAC, what makes it unique to me anyway, is the whole idea of it as a Pro product. I think that the higher ups at MAC exploit that uniqueness as well because really, it is to their benefit to do so. MAC is not just a makeup. Lancome is a makeup, Clinique is a makeup. One goes to the counter, buys their stuff and leaves. MAC has become an experience. There is a different feel when you go to the MAC store or counter. This experience is enhanced with the chic all black dress codes and the music pumping in the backround, the gorgeous MA's (male and female) who look larger than life. It is even experienced with the haughty attitudes that you run into sometimes, as if these people are part of something special that you can only get a glimpse of. The experience is enhanced with the minimalistic style of the store. Black and white. No fuss... very studio like. Of course these things are no accident. These are meant to draw the regular customer in and the product will keep us coming back.


What gives this whole thing legitimacy is the artistic support MAC has or had. What happens if that is taken away? That base is suddenly gone and then MAC is now a company that is merely perpetrating it's status in the PRO world. Now, I am not saying that if the Pros stop using MAC that I am going to run to Shu or Nars. No, I love MAC dearly but I feel that once the Pros are gone, the bar is kinda lowered ya know; that a discriminating standard that needed to be lived up to (the pro industry) is gone so that leaves the regular consumer for the company to focus on. That means that this crazy rollercoaster speed at which these collections are coming out is stepped up because hype is what drives the consumer in the end.

When there is almost this assembly line style of getting the product out quickly; month after month after month, it is inevitable that quality control is going to take a hit. Think, Prep and Prime and Paintstrokes.

Please don't take this as me turning to the darkside or whatever because that is not the case. I am as loyal to MAC as ever but I would be dismayed to see MAC lose it's edge. To see it cut corners to keep up with this monthly demand. For it to become just another makeup brand.

For a company like MAC that celebrates it edginess and avante garde styles, to promote complete blind loyalty is paradoxical. For MAC to be the best, we as their consumer base need to demand the best from it. If there is a backlash against the company by the pro industry, it might serve one well to think about the reasons before dismissing it as 'just backlash'.

Dissention is not always a negative thing. Dissention can cause change for the better. Keep the higher-ups on their toes because in the end, the higher-ups are about the money and if cutting corners or cheaping out on a product will make more money for them, they will gladly do it (Blue Pigment anyone?) . It is our job to make sure that doesn't happen.. because well, that would just suck.

Sorry for the ramble... lol.

[mspixieears]

I have this horrible feeling that MAC has somehow 'hooked' us onto them and we buy new colours from the new collections like kiddies in a sweet shop. I find this phenomenon hardest to resist when I'm unhappy (pathetic, isn't it).

Perhaps that is where some of the animosity towards MAC stems from? Just a thought.

[ms.marymac]

MAC is the M/U crack dealer! lol

I think it has to do with the changes the company has made since Lauder bought it. I was not there before the change, so I cannot say anything. I have just heard a lot of things from people who were there.

In the words of Risa= :X

[lovemichelle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mspixieears

I have this horrible feeling that MAC has somehow 'hooked' us onto them and we buy new colours from the new collections like kiddies in a sweet shop. I find this phenomenon hardest to resist when I'm unhappy (pathetic, isn't it).

Perhaps that is where some of the animosity towards MAC stems from? Just a thought.

It's weird to see adults run to a make-up counter when new things come out and worship it in a sense. MAC has people brainwashed, but thank God I'm not one of those people.

[mspixieears]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lovemichelle

It's weird to see adults run to a make-up counter when new things come out and worship it in a sense. MAC has people brainwashed, but thank God I'm not one of those people.

Neither am I, but it still disgusts me how much MAC I've bought even though I only get something that will add to my collection's uniqueness. I gave my mum one of my LE lippies because I knew it would suit her and that I had some UD lipgunks that were similar enough to it.

I might run to a shop in a brainwashed fashion for a very special book, or even a new album from a band I adored. Guess that's just as sad, really!

[lah_knee]

it pretty much is a shitty situation for professional freelancing artists who make a living off of that, but honestly, im not one of those people so i dont really care. or rather i cannot sympathize... im an average consumer who has a passion for makeup. i love lots of brands but only MAC comes out with products and colors that wow me for the most part. i dont buy into the hype or look... i dont buy products just because they are LE or RARE. i buy things i think i will like. most of the time i am right. MAC is no longer just a makeup artist brand. and ya know what there are tons of other professional makeup lines they can use... they can boycott it all they want. because the average consumers will STILL buy it. and more and more people are getting into it. for all ages, all races and all sexes.

[PrettyKitty]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lovemichelle

It's weird to see adults run to a make-up counter when new things come out and worship it in a sense. MAC has people brainwashed, but thank God I'm not one of those people.

What's wrong with that if you have the money?

[PrettyKitty]

I'm not a MAC makeup-artist, but I was a Biotherm MA. I got the WORST experience with Biotherm, but seriously, I will NEVER say bad things about this brand because it's STILL good products.

Oh by the way, if you don't like MAC why you are on Specktra?? I saw something here, and I wonder why it could be funny to read bad things like that about MAC when you're supposed to love MAC products? Why do you find it stupid when someone RUN to check the new collection? Because... If you're here, you're not supposed to be a MAC addict like us?

Makeup for artists or for 'average' consumers, I don't care. I love MAC because they have great products. (Yeah, sometimes they are not so great, but it's the same story in every brand!!)