NARS and animal testing?

evea

evea

New member
I wouldn't trust the technique of writing them entirely... later in this thread you see all the replies from companies,
even PROCTOR & GAMBLE claiming they don't test on animals!!! NOT TRUE!!!
http://www.pandgkills.com/main.html

Although there has been alot of change over the years, most products on your grocery and drug store shelves are still tested on animals. Loreal, Max Factor, Estée Lauder, Cacharel, Maybelline, Mary Kay, Biotherm, Neutrogena, Pantene... many of these lines are owned by Johnson and Johnson, SC Johnson, Proctor & Gamble, Clorox, Dial. Any big companies who aren't testing on animals were put under intense pressure. it threatened their bottom line. An example of a big drug store line that went vegan after alot of pressure is Revlon.
PETA's List of the companies THAT DO TEST:
http://www.peta.org/living/beauty-and-personal-care/companies/search.aspx?Testing=1

Please note that just because a company doesn't test on animals doesn't mean it doesn't contain animal bodies. Common ingredients like Carmine and Beeswax are animal derived. Peta's list is not vegan, this is not a requirement for them so if you are really serious about not exploiting animals you will look at the ingredient list as well as testing certification like the leaping bunny. I buy most products online and do a google search if I'm not sure. There are other vegans and animal lovers looking for answers and you will find many sources of information. The cool thing about companies that make vegan products is they tend to be ethical in many ways: labor, environment, health, charity... also they are smaller companies so we don't keep supporting this concentration of wealth that's going on in this nation.

So far, there are very few laws to protect animals from humans. I encourage all people to open their eyes to how we think of animals and try to take their part out of factory farming (eat as plant-based as you can), never buy a pet from a pet store (breeding causes more kills in shelters because there aren't enough good homes - not to mention cruel puppy mills). True regard for the lives of animals is possible. We don't need to destroy their lives to live a good life ourselves.
 
Dominique33

Dominique33

Well-known member
Hi,

Our European laws are much restrictive than US ones. However, it's not enough ! Animal testing is something we must ban. I am not a Vegan, I don't intend to become a Vegan but I am against cruelty against animals. We must try and find cruelty free products, beauty products and all products we buy. This is realistic and human. There is no other way to act or do.
 
aednyc

aednyc

New member
I honestly have to say that I don't understand it when people say "I'm not a vegan nor do I plan to be one" and follow that by saying "I'm against animal cruelty." You are against animal cruelty or you are not. And by eating animals and animal products brands you are pro-animal cruelty if you like it, deny it or not. There is no gray area when it comes to animal cruelty. Stop eating animals and animal products or admit that you don't care enough to give up animals on your plate. It's as simple as that.
 
MarieMary

MarieMary

Well-known member
If you want people to discuss any matter with you (which is crucial if you want to understand something better), it's better not to dismiss their opinion right off the bat. Dominique has an opinion, and I'm sure that as a sensible being she'd be willing to discuss it, but by implying her position is illogical and hypocritical, you've just alienated yourself a possibility for a debate. Or maybe you don't want a debate nor to understand.
 
aednyc

aednyc

New member
I took Dominique at her word. IMO, you either love animals enough not to participate in their abuse and murder or you don't. Dominique can believe whatever she wants but I'm saying that it's hypocritical. I really don't care if there's a debate about it. I didn't post my opinion to illicit a debate.
 
skratikans

skratikans

Well-known member
So testing on animals has restarted up again due to China, hasn't it? I don't understand why Europe and Australia doesn't ban these companies then
 
spiderlily222

spiderlily222

Well-known member
I personally don't understand people who are vegan yet use products tested on animals nor people who refuse to use products tested on animals yet eat them every day. It just doesn't make sense to me but I agree that everyone is entitled to their own opinion... I'd love to hear someone explain their reasoning either way.
 
shellygrrl

shellygrrl

Moderator
Staff member
spiderlily222 said:
I personally don't understand people who are vegan yet use products tested on animals nor people who refuse to use products tested on animals yet eat them every day. It just doesn't make sense to me but I agree that everyone is entitled to their own opinion... I'd love to hear someone explain their reasoning either way.
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Some people can't go vegan for health reasons. Some people are hesitant about buying makeup online. I'm thinking about those in areas with no access to counters, Sephora, Ulta and suchlike. (Most "cruelty-free" brands are high-end.) And many indie makeup brands -- most of which are marketed as "cruelty-free" -- are sold only online. Personally, I believe the cruelty-free moniker is rubbish. The only way to go completely cruelty-free is to stop wearing makeup, stop using skincare and haircare, give up meds, give up technology, grow your own fruit and veg, and make your own clothing. And that is an impossible task, because no one and nothing is entirely cruelty-free. (I bring up the last three items because cruelty-free types don't tend to think about cruelty to humans. A lot of their fruit and veg is grown by exploited migrant workers. Tech products -- Apple products in particular -- and many of our clothes are made by workers who are not paid a living wage for their work and do their jobs in terrible working conditions.) On a more relevant note: http://thebeautybrains.com/2014/09/16/is-animal-testing-still-necessary/
 
Dominique33

Dominique33

Well-known member
shellygrrl said:
Some people can't go vegan for health reasons. Some people are hesitant about buying makeup online. I'm thinking about those in areas with no access to counters, Sephora, Ulta and suchlike. (Most "cruelty-free" brands are high-end.) And many indie makeup brands -- most of which are marketed as "cruelty-free" -- are sold only online. Personally, I believe the cruelty-free moniker is rubbish. The only way to go completely cruelty-free is to stop wearing makeup, stop using skincare and haircare, give up meds, give up technology, grow your own fruit and veg, and make your own clothing. And that is an impossible task, because no one and nothing is entirely cruelty-free. (I bring up the last three items because cruelty-free types don't tend to think about cruelty to humans. A lot of their fruit and veg is grown by exploited migrant workers. Tech products -- Apple products in particular -- and many of our clothes are made by workers who are not paid a living wage for their work and do their jobs in terrible working conditions.) On a more relevant note: http://thebeautybrains.com/2014/09/16/is-animal-testing-still-necessary/
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I agree. Avoiding all products is unrealistic. If we want to go Vegan then we have to live in a place where there is no water, no electric devices, no doctor or dental surgeon, no music. Such a way of living is not possible for the Time being . Maybe one day who knows ? Never talk to a Vegan It leads nowwhere I fear.
 
skratikans

skratikans

Well-known member
Why can't ppl go vegan for health reasons? I don't understand, many ppl GO vegan bc of their health issues and not the other way around. Cholesterol, heart disease, cancer, the list goes on and on.
 
skratikans

skratikans

Well-known member
While avoiding it altogether is unrealistic, insects are killed when we harvest crops, ect. We as the consumer mold the direction of where the manufacturers go with their products. As long as they make money they don't care. It wasn't that long ago that they would sell U.S. products without even telling us what was in it. It's the public outcry that made them more transparent. Sure there truly isn't a way to be 100% vegan in its entirety, but being vegan is about MIIMIZING as much animal suffering as is possible. If the consumers stand against cruelty and tighten the manufacturers' money pockets they will soon follow what the public demands. Think about the consumer outcry when urban decay almost joined the Chinese market... And they ended up turning that venture down.
 
anamarta

anamarta

Member
I have to say I am not sure how these lists are compiled, and how to the cosmetics companies operate across different markets with different regulations. But in the European Union, animal testing has been banned for cosmetics (in both ingredients and finished products) so I am assuming any company that sells in Europe does not test on animals, at least large, reputable companies that would stand to loose a lot if caught breaking the law. (If you want to read more about it: http://ec.europa.eu/growth/sectors/cosmetics/animal-testing/index_en.htm)

It can be that some of the companies are in the list because they still use ingredients that have in the past been tested on animals? Not sure how that's managed.

Apart from animal testing being banned for cosmetics, it is very strictly regulated for other types of testing such as medical, etc. So in general I would say that it is highly likely that animals who are farmed for our food suffer much more than the ones used for animal testing. Don't get me wrong, I am happy animal testing has been mostly banned and is only used in very special cases, but I wished people would put the same energy protesting against how animals are treated by the food industry. I always find it odd that people react so (rightly) violently against cosmetic animal testing but don't care where the meat from your super cheap, fast food burger came from.
 
Dominique33

Dominique33

Well-known member
I do not eat meat, I have stopped eating meat ( except Fish though ) for 3 years now. I also avoid leather ( I would love and buy Dior handbags and high end shoes yes I would because now I do not want anymore ), no fur of course, no junk food. But cosmetics well I cannot help myself . Nars does not test on animals but some Nars products are manufactured in China which I do not approve at all.
 
shellygrrl

shellygrrl

Moderator
Staff member
skratikans said:
Why can't ppl go vegan for health reasons?
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Food allergies, having a body chemistry that needs the nutrition meat provides (you cannot get Vitamin B12 from vegetables; animal products -- including meat -- are the only food source of it), autistic people who cannot handle certain food textures (said textures are generally those of various fruits and veg), hereditary/genetic diseases that hinder the body's ability to process fruit and veg properly and make a person sick, other diet restrictions. Some people with mental illnesses (e.g., anxiety, depression) eat meat and eggs because it's recommended for them to do so as it'll work best with their meds. (Meat and eggs are high in protein.)
 
katred

katred

Specktra Bestie
shellygrrl said:
Food allergies, having a body chemistry that needs the nutrition meat provides (you cannot get Vitamin B12 from vegetables; animal products -- including meat -- are the only food source of it), autistic people who cannot handle certain food textures (said textures are generally those of various fruits and veg), hereditary/genetic diseases that hinder the body's ability to process fruit and veg properly and make a person sick, other diet restrictions. Some people with mental illnesses (e.g., anxiety, depression) eat meat and eggs because it's recommended for them to do so as it'll work best with their meds. (Meat and eggs are high in protein.)
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Yes you can. Vitamin B12 is produced through micro-organisms. Herbivores have the micro-organisms in their guts to produce it and we get the vitamin by ingesting them, but you can get them through fermented foods, because fermentation also involves bacterial symbiosis- the process through which B12 is produced. Marmite, vegemite and kombucha are vegan sources of B12. Or, if you'd prefer to consume something that doesn't taste like punishment, you can get foods, particularly cereals, that are fortified with B12.
 
skratikans

skratikans

Well-known member
You can get plenty of protein on a vegan diet...that is an old myth that has been debunked a long time ago..where do the animals that ppl eat get their protein and vitamins from? So the cow, horse, ox, mule, ect. are all buff from eating steak then? But I digress...this topic is about cosmetics and how messed up it is that cosmetic companies are going right back into animal testing..

Again, you don't have to be 100% vegan and still support companies that don't test on animals..its not an all or none approach. From what I gather, some ppl are using the excuse that "well, if you are against animal testing then you shouldn't be eating animals"..."or well if you eat animals you shouldn't care about animal testing...". All that does is turn ppl away or move away from the topic at hand.



If someone is against animal testing in makeup...I support them 100% regardless of their backgroung...bc it is a step in the right direction and as a society, a change for animal welfare isn't going to happen overnight...but we need to start somewhere.
 
maeonsaturday

maeonsaturday

Well-known member
There is a notice on L'oreal's website that states "The Group no longer tests on animal, anywhere in the world, and does not delegate this task to others. An exception could be made if regulatory authorities required it for safety or regulatory purposes." Same as Estee Lauder "We do not test our products or ingredients on animals, or ask others to test on our behalf, except where required by law." - Both companies state "except China". However I did read that the Chinese government no longer requires such animal tests.

However they are still not on the peta "do not test" list so I'm confused.
 
shellygrrl

shellygrrl

Moderator
Staff member
jaykayes said:
There is a notice on L'oreal's website that states "The Group no longer tests on animal, anywhere in the world, and does not delegate this task to others. An exception could be made if regulatory authorities required it for safety or regulatory purposes." Same as Estee Lauder "We do not test our products or ingredients on animals, or ask others to test on our behalf, except where required by law." - Both companies state "except China". However I did read that the Chinese government no longer requires such animal tests. However they are still not on the peta "do not test" list so I'm confused.
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I don't trust PETA with a 39.5 foot pole. Also, :barf: on them forever, AFAIC. That said, they may not be accounting for whether or not a brand is sold in China. Bloggers are generally better at keeping tabs on that.
 
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