Prison and living in 2007

[Raerae]

This is actually something I had wanted to discuss in the other thread, but I think it was difficult to seperate it from such a potentially emotional topic.

Is prison the, "cure all sentance" as we move into 2007 as it seems to be? It just seems that as populations swell, there is going to be more and more crime. Even if the crime % as a relation to the overall population remains the same, or goes down, the number of instances is going to go up. So unless were willing to build more prisons (and no one wants one near where they live) a better way of dealing out justice seems to be necessary. I'm not as informed on this topic as I would like to be, so I apologise in advance for any incorrect assumptions.

But it's already apparent that jails are overcrowded. Which only results in people who do crimes that should involve jail time, being let out early. Good behavior, etc. When it looks to me that more use of modern GPS technology could be used, to track people, who need to serve a sentence, but, who dont necessarily need to be put behind bars. As they have gotten advanced enough to where they can detect things like illegal substances and other things.

Not to mention, does jail really make people better? I really don't personally believe that making someone sit in a cell, and have all their needs taken care of for them, is really punishment. Yes their are confined in their movements, but other than that, life is in many ways much harder for so many people outside of jail, than for those who are in it.

Plus, what about all the hours of public service people could be doing. And i'm not just talking about picking up trash along the highway. Especially with all the recent disasters, it seems that a lot of people could benefit from the extra hands that are sitting idle in jail. Not to mention they might be able to learn a trade or a skill, and gain some value to their life, which would be better at keeping someone out of trouble, by giving them a way to make an honest living...

I dunno... Just something that had poped into my head and was curious as to people's opinions. Especially those who may be involved in the field, or have husbands who are. Etc.

Anyways.

 

[Beauty Mark]

I was very young when my uncle went to jail, but I know that it was the wake up for him to start acting right. I don't know what happened to him in jail, but he was pretty awful from before. He was always starting bar fights and stuff like that. I don't know why, but I know he was a changed person when he came back.

Depending on a lot of factors, there are programs that teach people some basic skills in life. I'm not sure how great jail is, since I think it can evoke some mental illnesses or mess people up. I just know it worked for my uncle to get him on the right path in life.

Personally, I would decriminalize drugs (yes, all of them, not just weed) and prostitution but that's another topic. I'm not advocating the use of drugs or prostitution but I don't see them as real crimes and think decriminalizing drugs would end crimes related to them. No one generally gets killed because I want some wine or if I wanted cigarettes.

 

[GroteskBurlesk]

i agree with most of what you said. the technology certainly exists to be able to do that. and prison didnt help my husband..but it wasnt just sitting in a cell, having his needs taken care of. he was forced to become an animal to survive. and not just by the prison staff, but by the inmates as well. he would be severely beaten by any number of guys if he broke any "rules" such as smoking after someone of a different race or even accepting a pack of ramen noodles. the "politics" are insufferable. Yes, life out here is hard, but its nothing like life in there where youre literally fighting for your survival daily. its been nearly a year and he still hasnt recovered.

in response to beauty mark: theres a reason drugs are illegal. people do get killed over drugs. drugs like meth and heroin and coke change a person. and only negatively. they become violent, selfish monsters when they previously were good people. ive known many drug addicts, including my husband (hes in recovery) and other friends and family; and am a recovering alcoholic, myself. drugs and alcohol have been pretty prevalent in my life and every person who used them ended up the same. itd be even worse if you could go into 711 and pick some up. or if there were Shooting Up ares next to the Smoking Area. As an alcoholic i know how hard it is to see booze everywhere and for an addict itd be 1000 times harder to have a bag of dope looking at them (BUY ONE GET ONE FREE!!) when theyre trying to buy batteries.

PS. I dont mean to sound as if im devaluing your opinion. im just stating my view on it.

 

[Beauty Mark]

People also killed over sneakers and alcohol can change a person pretty badly, too, as well as gambling (which I would also legalize) and any addiction, which can be pretty much anything.

I'm not saying you should be able to go to the local corner store and get your fix, but if it were regulated, I don't think it would be any worse. I can't prove it, but I think a lot of addicts to illegal substances are even more hesitant to get proper help because they're worried about getting arrested and going to jail. I have friends who have had addiction issues, I've had friends who are recreational users of drugs who are doing fabulously in life.

 

[GalleyGirl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GroteskBurlesk i agree with most of what you said. the technology certainly exists to be able to do that. and prison didnt help my husband..but it wasnt just sitting in a cell, having his needs taken care of. he was forced to become an animal to survive. and not just by the prison staff, but by the inmates as well. he would be severely beaten by any number of guys if he broke any "rules" such as smoking after someone of a different race or even accepting a pack of ramen noodles.

This reminds me of a documentary I saw on prison gangs, it was very scary. They are all basically divided by race, and if you are basically forced to join one for protection. And then of course you can never leave, because you will get killed for doing so.
Basically I think there are some people so heinous that they need to be locked away (and by that I mean solitary, not some general population crap where you became part of an insidious prison gang society), but I am all for more creative punishments. Like you're a rapist? Great, you get your d*ck cut off, and your hands too. Or forced sterilization for people who hurt their kids (like the vegan couple). The prison system as it stands now just seems to breed a more evil type of criminal.

 

[GalleyGirl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beauty Mark Personally, I would decriminalize drugs (yes, all of them, not just weed) and prostitution but that's another topic. I'm not advocating the use of drugs or prostitution but I don't see them as real crimes and think decriminalizing drugs would end crimes related to them. No one generally gets killed because I want some wine or if I wanted cigarettes.

I agree, it would totally undercut crime syndicates and put them out of business.
Wasn't Mexico going to legalize all drugs? What ever happened to that?

 

[coachkitten]

I don't believe that jail is the answer for a lot of people. I wish that in 2007 we could use our tax dollars to provide alternate treatment for people who are non-violent offenders to keep them out of jails that should be for violent and dangerous people.

 

[blueyedlady87]

the problem is that our jails aren't really punishing people. we are so big on rehabilitation that it's not about punishment anymore. my mom works in social services and the computers provided for prisoners to use are much better than the ones provided to my mom at work for the government. where's the logic in that? prisoners get porn, write letters, see family, get better healthcare than the poor do, etc. I've known several people who have been to jail and say it was like a free vacation (they were basically living ont he streets at the time of their arrest).

And you cannot rehabilitate eveyrone. Children molesters and rapists for example have an extremely high rate of repeat offenses, because it's an illness.

Another problem we're facing is that more and more juviniles are being tried as adults, so if a kid gets busted for pot 2 times and then breaks curfue they get 5-10 years and come out hardened criminals.

And I understand the logic behind the Three Strikes Law (in CA on a third offense you get life, so the third offense could be stealing a candy bar but you still go for life), I mean obviously they've proven they can't abide by the rules of society. But it's completely clogging the system.

A big issue in my eyes is that we don't actually execute people on death row. many just sit there until they are so old, they die naturally. that's not right. i say you get one appeal and if it's denied your put to death. (i'm not positive on the exact amoutn but it costs something like way over $100,000 to keep a prisoner)

I know we need more prisons, and I'm not sure why they can't build them in CA out in all the rural areas. No, I don't want prisons or criminals anywhere near my kids (when I have them, lol!) or my property.

It's ridiculous that in our society cop killers can get off but people are put away for life for doing drugs. That's crap. I'm sorry, but I just so frustrated with our government. Many times I feel it set up to protect the criminal, not the victim.

PS- i get my info from my sister-in-law who is a Criminal Justice major (america? justice? yeah right!) and my government class.

 

[blueyedlady87]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GalleyGirl Like you're a rapist? Great, you get your d*ck cut off, and your hands too. Or forced sterilization for people who hurt their kids (like the vegan couple).

The only thing about castrating child molesters and rapists is that they would find things to do it with, not to get into gory detail but I'm sure you can imagine. I do however think the thought of mere castration would prevent some guys from doing it (com on a guys d*** is like his prized possession, most would rather be dead than without it, dumba***). Forced sterilization I'm all for, but "oh my gosh we wouldn't want to violate a killers right to reproduce, would we now??" (sarcasm) People who have kids to stay on welfare should be sterilized as well.

 

[blueyedlady87]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GroteskBurlesk in response to beauty mark: theres a reason drugs are illegal. people do get killed over drugs. drugs like meth and heroin and coke change a person. and only negatively. they become violent, selfish monsters when they previously were good people.

Absolutely. The danger in making drugs legal is that by doing that the government is saying it's okay. I mean drugs do kill and by making them legal the gov would be condoning that. Drug use is just stupid in my opinion. Pointless and such a waste of life. I just had dinner with an uncle who used drugs (meth i believe) and was in jail for a looong time. anyhow, he got god and he's better now but his brain is fried! he can't remember names of anyone, is really slow at understanding conversations, and repeats himslef. It's very sad because he's a great guy. if drugs never existed, alot of the problems we have today wouldn't exist.

 

[Dizzy]

I don't want to apply this to all jails, because there are different types. Some are publicly owned (the state controls them, funds them, etc) and others are privately owned (operated by a company other than the state government, but still used by the state). Each ones has pros and cons, but run VERY differently.

My family has worked in a county-run jail, my mother a secretary and one of my brothers is a CO. In my experience (I was allowed to do research at that jail for a college project), incarceration is nothing more than a vacation from the streets for some of these inmates. It's very 'hug a thug'- they still get to watch TV, go outside for at least an hour a day, get three meals a day, have an entire library of books to choose from, have the opportunity to get their GED or start college, etc. All this is doing is just a slap on the wrist, a 'you sit in the corner and THINK about what you've done!' situation, except for adults.

I'd love to see a situation where they had to actually work off their debt to society. Clean up the trash off the streets, mow the lawn of the jail and its facilities, (depending on where you live) work on a farm, etc. all while under the supervision of CO's. That's essentially what jails were suppose to be- for someone to work off their debt to society for whatever misdeed occured, not for rehab. It's a place that's suppose to make you realise 'hey, buddy, you screwed up, dont' do it again' not 'oh we'll make you're life all better!! Don't worry about a thing!' that is is now.

The guys I spoke to for my project were what the CO's called 'regulars'. These are guys who serve their time, released and are back within the month for screwing up again. One guy I spoke to was 18 and this was his fourth time there. He bitched that the jail had dared to put someone else in his cell. I didn't know that this was Motel 6 and that our CO's were suppose to leave the light on for him.

It's that sort of mentality that makes jails not as effective anymore. They have to make it a place where it sucks so bad that you would NEVER want to be there/go there again. I also think that the overcrowding is a reflection of society- morals and values are long gone, and instead it's replaced with an attitude of entitlement. Instead of "I'm going to go get a job" it's "Dammit! Either get me a job or give me public assistance!" I remember when I was a kid people were ashamed to admit they were on welfare and would get off of it as soon as possible. Now, you have cases of people just mooching off it as their main source of income. It's the same in the prison system- I know that I would be disowned if I were to ever be arrested. I love my family too much to ever do that to them. These people usually don't have that- either nobody cares enough to do anything, the family feels "it wasn't soandso's fault they were arrested! This is discrimination!", or it's a sort of reptuation-builder for them, it gives them credibility. Of course there are those that don't fit into the mold, but in my experience they are most definately the exception.

Between the erosion of values/morals and the 'hug a thug' enviornment, you're not going to get rehabilitation. You're going to get people using it like a revolving door. It's inevitable. Until they implement a system that requires responsibility on the part of the offender for their actions, it's not going to change.

Quote:

Personally, I would decriminalize drugs (yes, all of them, not just weed) and prostitution but that's another topic. I'm not advocating the use of drugs or prostitution but I don't see them as real crimes and think decriminalizing drugs would end crimes related to them. No one generally gets killed because I want some wine or if I wanted cigarettes.

Yes, but wine and cigarettes don't alter your personality or brain chemistry like meth, coke, and LSD do/can. Not to mention the HUGE risk it is for everyone else. Have you ever seen a 180lbs guy hopped up on Meth when he feels trapped somewhere? My father's partener has (NYPD rookie at the time): shattered elbow, torn ligaments, dislocated shoulder, cracked ribs that punctured his lung, concussion, and multiple other smaller injuries. This was AFTER the guy was tazed- he didn't feel a thing because of the drugs. There have been cases where users have been shot and never felt it- do you really want someone who would need seven or eight police officers to take down free on the streets while on meth? What if he decides he wants to go in your house, he wants your car, hell what if he starts to hallucinate and suddenly you become an offending figure in his world that needs to be removed?

A person is smart, but people are dumb. We have enough drug-related deaths as it is, do you really think that more people are going to become more responsible if it's legalized? I mean, I understand your reasoning, drugs like weed don't necessarily hurt everyone, so people can't understand why they're banned. But what about the heavier stuff- look at the effects of herion, LSD, E. There's definately a reason for them being banned. It's not a 100% effective solution, but it's better than the general public being able to get it whenever and however they want. It's more of a deterrant than anything else.

 

[Beauty Mark]

I think a lot of the initial use comes from glamor. People do things a lot of time, like underage drinking, because they think they're badass. If it's decriminalized, a lot of that fun goes away.

Besides, decriminalization is different than legalization. It doesn't automatically allow use, but it changes how society handles it.