Beauty Marked
Well-known member
has anyone read it?
i need clarification
i have a couple of questions i need answered
t.i.a.
i need clarification
i have a couple of questions i need answered
t.i.a.
the communist manifesto
- Thread starter Beauty Marked
- Start date
Beauty Marked
Well-known member
i`m sorry i need some more help
i`m so dumb i swear i dont get it at all
*how would communists win the battle for democracy?
*what steps were taken by the proletariat when they gain power?
*what does marx think of political power?
thanks in advance
i`m so dumb i swear i dont get it at all
*how would communists win the battle for democracy?
*what steps were taken by the proletariat when they gain power?
*what does marx think of political power?
thanks in advance
mspixieears
Well-known member
Woah, now here's one thread I never thought I'd see on Specktra! lol
Beauty Marked
Well-known member
beauty and brains ladies
specktra has helped me a lot on my homework
i just love it here but seriously i need some help!!!!
specktra has helped me a lot on my homework
i just love it here but seriously i need some help!!!!
moonrevel
Well-known member
Hehe, you think the Manifesto is tough, try Das Kapital! Anyway, I think the answers to your questions would be best found in the latter sections of Part II, "Proletarians and Communists." Note especially the numbered list of what will happen when the proletarians organize and stage their revolution.
And don't feel dumb! All of Marx's work is challenging, especially if you aren't used to reading political theory.
And don't feel dumb! All of Marx's work is challenging, especially if you aren't used to reading political theory.
joytheobscure
Well-known member
Specktra is now being watched by the CIA......
"There is a spectre haunting Europe..... I've read it - its been a while, I did take a lot of European History and The History of The Soviet Union... I'd reread it and consider the Society that Karl Marx was coming out of, Marxist theory was to work in a gradual procession - I think that Marx believed that defeating capitalism was to be a gradual process. The proletariet was to take gradual steps- i.e. Socialism- then proceed to a more communistic society, the bolsheviks messed it all up when they got ahold of it. I can't clearly give you the answer you want though, so I'll shut up.
"There is a spectre haunting Europe..... I've read it - its been a while, I did take a lot of European History and The History of The Soviet Union... I'd reread it and consider the Society that Karl Marx was coming out of, Marxist theory was to work in a gradual procession - I think that Marx believed that defeating capitalism was to be a gradual process. The proletariet was to take gradual steps- i.e. Socialism- then proceed to a more communistic society, the bolsheviks messed it all up when they got ahold of it. I can't clearly give you the answer you want though, so I'll shut up.
moonrevel
Well-known member
Quote:
Hahah! I can see it now, "Makeup and communism...what the hell goes on at Specktra?"
You couldn't be more right about the Bolsheviks, unfortunately, and most every other group that has "tried" communism. While I think these days people aren't as concerned about socialism and communism as we once were, it is a shame that the way many countries have attempted to practice communism has put such a black mark (or a red one, to be more accurate!) on Marx and his theories in general. He has so much interesting work, but tell someone you're reading *fill in the name of some obscure Marx essay here* by Marx, and they look at you like you're the devil. My master's thesis included a lot of Marxism and Critical Theory as it's theoretical framework, so I had been reading a lot of Marx's work, and it got me quite a few suspicious looks on the bus.
| Originally Posted by joytheobscure Specktra is now being watched by the CIA...... |
Hahah! I can see it now, "Makeup and communism...what the hell goes on at Specktra?"
You couldn't be more right about the Bolsheviks, unfortunately, and most every other group that has "tried" communism. While I think these days people aren't as concerned about socialism and communism as we once were, it is a shame that the way many countries have attempted to practice communism has put such a black mark (or a red one, to be more accurate!) on Marx and his theories in general. He has so much interesting work, but tell someone you're reading *fill in the name of some obscure Marx essay here* by Marx, and they look at you like you're the devil. My master's thesis included a lot of Marxism and Critical Theory as it's theoretical framework, so I had been reading a lot of Marx's work, and it got me quite a few suspicious looks on the bus.
mspixieears
Well-known member
Quote:
Yeah, that was me, till I found makeup, and Specktra. Sorry, couldn't help but be facetious.
I can't actually answer the questions but did want to say that I don't understand why Marxism or Marx's work would get such a bad rap, because it's the people that have tried to put his theories into practice that have given communism a bad name.
At the risk of 'outing' myself, I think it's incredibly sad that our current (Western) political climate has pretty much done away with all the rights that workers fought for at the turn of the century. In terms of limiting hours in the working week, allowing unions to step in and defend workers' rights, privatisation of healthcare etc. The world is all about profit and if that means treating people like crap and working them like dogs, so be it. I'm trying to say that allowing bits and pieces of socialism into the current state of things might not be such a bad idea.
Ok, I'm stepping off the soapbox...gently...
| Originally Posted by joytheobscure Specktra is now being watched by the CIA...... "There is a spectre haunting Europe... |
Yeah, that was me, till I found makeup, and Specktra. Sorry, couldn't help but be facetious.
I can't actually answer the questions but did want to say that I don't understand why Marxism or Marx's work would get such a bad rap, because it's the people that have tried to put his theories into practice that have given communism a bad name.
At the risk of 'outing' myself, I think it's incredibly sad that our current (Western) political climate has pretty much done away with all the rights that workers fought for at the turn of the century. In terms of limiting hours in the working week, allowing unions to step in and defend workers' rights, privatisation of healthcare etc. The world is all about profit and if that means treating people like crap and working them like dogs, so be it. I'm trying to say that allowing bits and pieces of socialism into the current state of things might not be such a bad idea.
Ok, I'm stepping off the soapbox...gently...
moonrevel
Well-known member
Quote:
While you may be right, I think it's important to remember, as far as Marx is concerned, that there is a lot more to his work than the Communist Manifesto and his ideal model of communism. His theory of communism may not have worked in practice (leaving aside for the moment that no one practiced it the way he suggested), but his critiques of capitalism are a great thing to read and study. I don't think you have to "buy" the political order he's trying to sell you to agree that there is some merit to what he says about capitalism, which is that so much of our laws and economic and power structures are built specifically to maintain a particular class structure. You don't really have to agree with communism to acknowledge the problems with capitalism.
This is really what bothers me about how communism has been practiced. It didn't turn out so well, so everyone thinks Marx is a dangerous lunatic and not worth studying in an academic sense. I think you can study his critiques of capitalism without becoming a card-carrying communist. The point of a lot of his work is to critique what we often take for granted, which I think is a very important exercise in our modern world.
I hope I didn't come across as mean, but I've been studying a lot of Marx lately, and I've found a lot of merit in it and I suddenly felt the need to vent.
| Originally Posted by JJones The main idea of the whole concept seems great, but you can never archieve this. There'll be always people trying to make profit. I think Marx got this right, but didn't realize that people will never change. |
While you may be right, I think it's important to remember, as far as Marx is concerned, that there is a lot more to his work than the Communist Manifesto and his ideal model of communism. His theory of communism may not have worked in practice (leaving aside for the moment that no one practiced it the way he suggested), but his critiques of capitalism are a great thing to read and study. I don't think you have to "buy" the political order he's trying to sell you to agree that there is some merit to what he says about capitalism, which is that so much of our laws and economic and power structures are built specifically to maintain a particular class structure. You don't really have to agree with communism to acknowledge the problems with capitalism.
This is really what bothers me about how communism has been practiced. It didn't turn out so well, so everyone thinks Marx is a dangerous lunatic and not worth studying in an academic sense. I think you can study his critiques of capitalism without becoming a card-carrying communist. The point of a lot of his work is to critique what we often take for granted, which I think is a very important exercise in our modern world.
I hope I didn't come across as mean, but I've been studying a lot of Marx lately, and I've found a lot of merit in it and I suddenly felt the need to vent.
Throwaway Style
Well-known member
I had to read it last semester for my 20th century russian history class.
mspixieears
Well-known member
Quote:
This is one of the things that bothers me about, generally speaking, America's attitude towards communism, and Marx. But sadly, it's not really the people's fault if they're brought up to believe that these ideas are 'evil' from the moment you're born. I'm not saying it's impossible, but most people won't ever get to a stage where they will be forced to question the ideas or values they are brought up with. Unless it affects them directly (i.e. your father's small farm has to shut down because some multi-national company moves next door, for argument's sake. You're starving as a result and all of a sudden, the world seems a darker place).
I was extremely lucky in that when I was 4 I lived in a very poor country for a year, and then moved back to my home country (UK at the time), where things were...straitened shall we say. In the socio-economic front, things were much easier when we moved to Australia but you never forget those days when things were harder, and I'm glad otherwise I might think Marx was a loony
ok probably not, but perhaps what I'm getting at it is that usually experience can force about the consideration or openness to other ideas you may not have believed in once.
Damn it, can't help myself. Sorry people.
By the way, I think you know I *totally* agree with you moonrevel
edited to add: Actually, moonrevel, you inspired me to get off my butt and finish an entry for my blog, just posted it up now, it's about the apparent failure of communism and fascism in the bathroom. It's not strictly political, more humour, or an attempt at.
| Originally Posted by moonrevel This is really what bothers me about how communism has been practiced. It didn't turn out so well, so everyone thinks Marx is a dangerous lunatic and not worth studying in an academic sense. I think you can study his critiques of capitalism without becoming a card-carrying communist. The point of a lot of his work is to critique what we often take for granted, which I think is a very important exercise in our modern world. I hope I didn't come across as mean, but I've been studying a lot of Marx lately, and I've found a lot of merit in it and I suddenly felt the need to vent.
|
This is one of the things that bothers me about, generally speaking, America's attitude towards communism, and Marx. But sadly, it's not really the people's fault if they're brought up to believe that these ideas are 'evil' from the moment you're born. I'm not saying it's impossible, but most people won't ever get to a stage where they will be forced to question the ideas or values they are brought up with. Unless it affects them directly (i.e. your father's small farm has to shut down because some multi-national company moves next door, for argument's sake. You're starving as a result and all of a sudden, the world seems a darker place).
I was extremely lucky in that when I was 4 I lived in a very poor country for a year, and then moved back to my home country (UK at the time), where things were...straitened shall we say. In the socio-economic front, things were much easier when we moved to Australia but you never forget those days when things were harder, and I'm glad otherwise I might think Marx was a loony
Damn it, can't help myself. Sorry people.
By the way, I think you know I *totally* agree with you moonrevel
edited to add: Actually, moonrevel, you inspired me to get off my butt and finish an entry for my blog, just posted it up now, it's about the apparent failure of communism and fascism in the bathroom. It's not strictly political, more humour, or an attempt at.
