Blasphemy???!!! *GASP*

[SChotgurrl]

Ok so I'm a member of a modeling website (it's also for photographers, stylists, and MUAs) and I've noticed a few stylists and MUAs with anti-MAC avatars??? They have the word MAC with the whole red-circle-with-a-slash thing over it...what in the name of Davey Jones' locker is this all about??? I'd rather ask you gals here b/c for one: this site is ALL ABOUT MAC

and two: I enjoy reading reading all you lovelies' [non-flaming or bashing]opinions/thoughts/critiques (and posts in general!)

Could someone please clue me in on this whole "anti-MAC" bullshit? TIA

*Runs away to cuddle and soothe "The Precious"*

 

[Shimmer]

google "anti-mac movement" and see if you can find anything that way. :/

 

[bluegrassbabe]

Google "em elle industry forum", there is a lot of discussion about it on that forum. Sorry I don't have a link.
The artists on this site make a lot of very valid points about Estee Lauder Companies (MAC is owned by EL) and what I would call the "wal-martization" of makeup. It's an interesting read.
Also search for KJ Bennet. There is an anti-mac blog on his site as well.
The topic has also come up on this board a few times. Read it all over and draw your own conclusions

 

[SChotgurrl]

Thank you ladies! I will do some searching on this

 

[MacVirgin]

Maybe this link helps to clear the mistery for ya

http://specktra.net/showthread.php?t=46429

and this:
http://www.specktra.net/showthread.p...light=anti+mac

 

[LisaR]

Here's kjbennett's blog who has offered his view and some of the history of the whole arguement. He's even got a website called "In my Kit" full of professional products used by professional MUA's - non of which are MAC - all of which are excellent products.

http://blog.kjbennett.com/?page_id=42

 

[as_cute_as_pie]

is it me or is this a mac face chart??

http://makeup.kjbennett.com/home.htm

 

[as_cute_as_pie]

i think alot of people dont like mac due to the whole EL thing and the fact that collections come out every week seems like a desperate attempt. ive also read somewhere that someone worked in a counter and everyone kept going to the MAC counter instead of hers sounds like jealousy....

oh and the whole pushing out makeup artists out of business thing

this man seems to hate everything

http://blog.kjbennett.com/?m=200512

the entry sayin the 2005 bs awards

 

[LisaR]

Voices of other artists

Just playing "devil's advocate" here because someone asked about the "No MAC" sign. I only gave one example but here's a list of the opinions of many artists and their thoughts. Some pro/some con.

My personal opinion is that most independant working MUA's use a hodgepodge of products in their kits. I know I do and so does every other MUA that I know - including MAC.

http://p082.ezboard.com/fmakeupandre... D=7896.topic

 

[SARAHluvsMAC]

kevin bennett taught MAC pro classes in 2002 as well as uses a MAC face chart in the a collage on his website...
seems pretty fishy to me that he would keep those things on his website if hes so against mac

 

[MisStarrlight]

The MAC pushing MAs out of work is a real thing. Take a look at this past Fashion Week if you don't believe me. MAC took over like all the big contracts (that used to go to freelance MAs)

And MAC did all of the makeup for Pirates 2-What the eff is that all about? They're even taking away union jobs now. It's got a lot of people in the industry pissed. It's not just this KJ guy calling for the boycott-the east coast union is too (I dunno about the west coast, but they probably are saying the same thing).

I don't have an opinion on it all quite yet. I'm still too new to the industry & MAC currently still hands me a paycheck every week & completely consumes my kit so I can't (and don't) hate them in the slightest....it's definitely something I'm keeping an eye on though.

 

[koolmnbv]

So why try to go up against such a big company? Obviously MAC is winning, and all the non-mac freelancers are pissed. So why not just try to join up with the MAC team and try to grow from there instead of rebelling and clawing and fighting against such a huge force like EL?

I am not saying that I agree or disagree, I can see both sides because I am not a MUA and I dont have any reason to hate MAC b/c I am only a consumer. But from the MUAs side I can understand there aggrevation, but I cant see them actually beating or bringing down or even putting a dent in a company like MAC and EL but I guess they are mad and vengeful.

I guess I just say if Ya cant beat em join em.

 

[mae13]

I would assume it's because most people who go into artist-type fields prefer to work for themselves, to be independent and have control over their own decisions. If you work for MAC, you go where they send you and are accountable to a bunch of people aside from yourself and the client.

And if you want to leave, you start from scratch, because the company owns all your tear sheets - you're not credited. Besides which, MAC doesn't need artists half as much as it needs salespeople. They are not a make-up artistry company, they are a company that sells make-up. They are not there to promote, support or develop the MA community's interests, but their own fiscal agenda.

 

[dangerousmuffins]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mae13 They are not a make-up artistry company, they are a company that sells make-up. They are not there to promote, support or develop the MA community's interests, but their own fiscal agenda.

I know this might not be the point you're making with this, but I find the above statement so true, and I think that sometimes people forget this!!

If I start boycotting every company that has their top priority in making money and not caring or taking care of their employees, I don't know if I'll ever buy anything again! (My BF might like that, but i don't!

)
Do I think "the not taking care of the employees" syndrome is right - NO - of course not!

My point really is that EL is just not the only company that does this.

 

[giz2000]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mae13 I would assume it's because most people who go into artist-type fields prefer to work for themselves, to be independent and have control over their own decisions. If you work for MAC, you go where they send you and are accountable to a bunch of people aside from yourself and the client. And if you want to leave, you start from scratch, because the company owns all your tear sheets - you're not credited. Besides which, MAC doesn't need artists half as much as it needs salespeople. They are not a make-up artistry company, they are a company that sells make-up. They are not there to promote, support or develop the MA community's interests, but their own fiscal agenda.

You hit the nail right on the head. Here in South Florida, MAC MAs do all the major awards shows (Latin and regular Grammys, etc), fashion shows, etc. They get regular hourly pay as if they were at their counter. A freelance MA with a good reputation (non-MAC affiliated) could charge $500-700 per show....who do you think the show producers would rather have? It's a no-brainer....and the bottom line is what the cosmetics business is all about.

 

[Beauty Mark]

I can understand where they're coming from, though. Undercutting is a big deal. It lows the standard of pay, so it makes difficult for people to make a living off of their work. Also, (don't lynch me for this, because I'm not familiar with the quality before and after what's going on) quality tends to go down fast because of the lower pay. It's partially because the people who charge a lower rate aren't can't command the higher rate because of their skills.

I know it's how business is ran, but I still feel for these people, particularly if they are part of the reason MAC is such a well-known, respected brand. I guess what surprises me the most is that there's no sort of union that works against this.

 

[LisaR]

I think it has more to do with who made MAC what it is today. It's the wonderfully talented artists that charge the big bucks because they're the ones with the experience, know-how, a vast range of product lines and they've worked hard to get where they are today as well as to help make MAC what it is today.

IMO they're fighting as hard for the future of young artists (even those at MAC) who don't realize that they could be making way more than $14-18 per hour, who don't realize that when most of these artists leave MAC, they have nothing to show but a good reference - no tear sheets, no book or credentials, nothing - because when they go out on a job they are "so and so for MAC" and EL owns all their tear sheets. Once they leave they have to start over. Perhaps MAC sounds good now but in the long run it is not good for artists as a whole.

You're right, the cosmetics industry is about selling cosmetics and "the bottom line". Make-up artistry is about art. Art that comes from experience, talent, color, texture, medium - It's something no cosmetics company can box and it comes at a price.

Given the choice: Kevyn Aucoin at whatever his rate was or MAC cosmetics at even $14 an hour...I'll take the beauty and experience of KA any old day.



Quote:

Originally Posted by giz2000 You hit the nail right on the head. Here in South Florida, MAC MAs do all the major awards shows (Latin and regular Grammys, etc), fashion shows, etc. They get regular hourly pay as if they were at their counter. A freelance MA with a good reputation (non-MAC affiliated) could charge $500-700 per show....who do you think the show producers would rather have? It's a no-brainer....and the bottom line is what the cosmetics business is all about.

 

[giz2000]

Yep...the artistry aspect of the industry has taken a back seat to the financial aspect...and that's too bad. I know a lot of extremely talented MAs (both MAC and non-MAC) who bust their butts doing outside gigs to build their professional portfolio, so when the day comes that they do leave MAC to venture out on their own, they have something to take with them. For instance, one of my old co-workers would take afternoon shifts as often as possible, because she might have had a wedding to do in the AM, show up for work (7.5 hour shift), then leave to do a photo shoot or fashion spread in the evening...her days were 12-14 hours long (or longer) and she worked on her days off as well, but when she left MAC, she had an impressive book and is getting work in the TV and film industry on a regular basis (and I guarantee she gets paid WAY more than $18/hour).

MAC is a wonderful stepping stone to a career in makeup, but a lot of the younger MAs don't realize that there IS a world outside of our beloved MAC, and that they need to learn as much as they can in order to take their talents and make a name for themselves. Easier said that done, but it does happen.

 

[SChotgurrl]

Man, all these posts have been so extremely helpful!!! I'd been dying to work at MAC for the longest (along with half of America, LOL), but now I don't feel SO eager about it...I mean like giz2000 said, it's probably a great stepping stone; but I don't think I'd try to make a career out of it. It's definitely something I'd like to do "on the side" once I graduate in the Spring (2007). I'm a dance major so my FIRST priority, career wise, is to choreograph and/or teach at a dance studio. Here in SC, the dance industry is nowhere near that of LA or NYC, so jobs pay pretty well (there's a high demand for teachers/choreographers in SC and surrounding states).

Basically my ideal plan (pre and post graduation) is to go ahead and start teaching hip-hop/jazz this Fall at a dance studio near my campus....continue doing that after graduation...and then post-grad apply for a part-time (or maybe freelance?) job at [the only] MAC counter in Columbia. I wanna wait til after I graduate so I'll have more time to work more hours in both fields. Now of course if the MAC thing doesn't work out I'd still have dance to continue and I'll probably have a back-up plan as well. I don't know, I guess I'll see how things fall together this year! Thanks for all the info. you gals really opened up my eyes to a lot of things

 

[FacesbyNiki]

You make it work for you. That is with any company in any field. People wasting energy on this 'I hate MAC' mess, cracks me up.

If you ain't making it work for you, be mad at yourself and not the company.