Do you think MAC should have the same rules internationally?

[Exotica]

For example here in Australia we can't B2M for eyeshadows or LE lipsticks which I find pretty silly. We are only allowed to B2M for the regular line lipsticks (i'm pretty sure that does not include slimshines). Also our return options are more strict than the US. I feel MAC is more lenient towards their US buyers. I think it's strange that they have different rules for different countries and should apply the same basic rules to every store/country. What do you think?

 

[panda0410]

I dont know. Honestly I have to tell you that I HAVE B2M for Slimshines AND LE lippies at Paddington and have never been told otherwise, though I havent B2M for an LE since before Christmas now - it may have changed since then. I do know that Slimshines are definitely allowed to be B2M for. I did notice that the Dame Edna lippies were $41AU on the site and regular lippies are normla prices so perhaps this has something to do with it - we are now paying a noticeable extra for the shiny packaging eveyone seems to want....

I almosy always use depotted e/s and blushes as well and have never had them rejected either.

I do wish the policies would be uniform though. It would be totally awesome to be able to B2M for an e/s or lipglass for a change!!!

 

[Simply Elegant]

I think it should be applied the same everywhere but I doubt that'll happen. The US has a lot more buying power so of course they're going to get the better policies. About the return policy, it's like a cultural thing I think.

 

[spectrolite]

My theory on why there are different policies here in regards to B2M and returns is that we don't get a large quantity of products here in Australia. Have you ever noticed how limited some items are? For instance when I went to the Pro store on Chapel last week to inquire about BBR and I was really surprised to see how little they had on hand of some products. They only had about 5 of one shade of e/s and 6 of another etc.. and that was it. That was their entire allocation. Is that many really meant to provide goods for MU professionals, collectors/enthusiasts and the general public?? And it's not just the LE lines that they get small numbers of, alot of the pro-shades you have to wait months for before they are restocked. Imagine how much less they would have on hand if we could just go in and get one by trading our empties? They must get a heap of popular regular line lippies to compensate us because that's something they are never really out of!

With the returns - I don't know exactly what happens to something once you return it in the States (but I do think that their policies are extremely wasteful). Do they recycle the packaging and chuck the remaining product out?? What would they do here? Would they need to pack all of the returns up and ship them off somewhere for recycling and waste disposal? That would cost them money! It's much easier for them to make us keep it, return the packaging for recycling if we choose and dispose of the waste from the left over product ourselves.

I guess they just want to try and turn a profit on these items because they know that people will shell out for them. The lipstick is still a pretty good deal IMO and I have confirmed with MAC Australia customer service that you can indeed B2M for thier LE lipsticks. Anyone who tells you otherwise is misinformed. Call them and check for yourself. I had a debacle over it with the Cult of Cherry mattenes which I got in the end.

 

[alexheartsmac]

i think the same thing because i am only a teen and i am not that in to lipsticks so i tend to get slimshines for my b2m and i dont think its fair if another country doesnt have the same rules and i dont think it makes any sense

 

[caffn8me]

Do bear in mind that some countries have no B2M at all - often because of existing laws governing recycling and not because of company policy. Name one other major cosmetics company that offers anything like B2M. To get anything is a bonus, don't knock it.

 

[Lotte]

Quote:

Originally Posted by caffn8me Do bear in mind that some countries have no B2M at all - often because of existing laws governing recycling and not because of company policy. Name one other major cosmetics company that offers anything like B2M. To get anything is a bonus, don't knock it.

Exactly, I'm from Belgium and I'm pretty sure we can't B2M.
I would be very glad if we could B2M for a lipstick from the perm line...

 

[caffn8me]

I'm pretty sure Germany doesn't allow B2M either. B2M isn't a right, it's a privilege and one I am very grateful to have been able to use in the past. If it was stopped tomorrow I'd be sad but I wouldn't complain as it has served me well in the past.

 

[JustDivine]

Yes, I know it's a privilege to have B2M in the first place, but I don't think that is the point. Unfortunately due to laws it is not allowed in some countries. That is not a decision made by MAC to deny those customers the right to B2M.
In countries where it IS permitted, why can there not be B2M for e/s and lipglass? I think that is the key question, and I believe that MAC has made a choice as to allow some the entitlement to this, and to deny it to others. That is the real issue, and it saddens me to say I don't know why!

p.s B2M is a privilege, yes, but MAC must be getting some benefit out of it.....beyond mere good environmental stewardship. I don't see how this is otherwise sustainable....

 

[caffn8me]

What financial benefit does M·A·C get from the M·A·C Aids Fund? How is production of Viva Glam products sustainable financially? Don't assume that all things are down to money.

 

[JustDivine]

I didn't say financial benefit

And I wouldn't make such a statement regarding a cause which is wholly charitable (as in philanthropic rather than mere generousity); you can't really compare Viva Glam: that's a charity, and charitable causes are not about what you get out of it.

I wouldn't equate viva glam with B2M

 

[caffn8me]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustDivine MAC must be getting some benefit out of it.....beyond mere good environmental stewardship. I don't see how this is otherwise sustainable....

Perhaps you'd like to expand a little on this and explain what you mean. AIDS research is a "good cause" but isn't protecting the planet's dwindling resources even more important?

The implication you make by using the phrase "I don't see how this is otherwise sustainable" when referring to "getting some benefit" implies a financial benefit - it's the bottom line for most companies.

 

[Simply Elegant]

I think that the viva glam campaign indirectly helps the bottom line. It makes customers more likely to think that they really care for people which draws people in to buy. Also, it is of minimal cost to make the lipsticks and so the perception of MAC being a caring company is worth it.

 

[Curly1908]

MAC was founded with philanthropy in mind which is why it has Viva Glam (HIV/AIDS) and B2M (recycling). (They probably get a tax break for their charitable giving also.) It is my understanding that other countries have substantial recycling programs so they don't need B2M...or else their laws prevent the program.

In order to B2M for something other than a lipstick in the U.S., you have to live near a MAC STORE. You can't B2M for a non-l/s product at a counter. My state does not have any MAC stores so I've never been able to get a non-l/s B2M product...

Even though I'm not a fan of l/s, it's free so I don't complain. That's just me though. Other cosmetic companies don't even bother to reward loyal customers, and their prices are a lot higher.

 

[panda0410]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spectrolite I guess they just want to try and turn a profit on these items because they know that people will shell out for them. The lipstick is still a pretty good deal IMO and I have confirmed with MAC Australia customer service that you can indeed B2M for thier LE lipsticks. Anyone who tells you otherwise is misinformed. Call them and check for yourself. I had a debacle over it with the Cult of Cherry mattenes which I got in the end.

Thats GREAT news for our Aussie colleagues who have been declined LE lippies in the past - perhaps you could post a copy of your convo with them here for us please?

Quote:

Originally Posted by caffn8me Do bear in mind that some countries have no B2M at all - often because of existing laws governing recycling and not because of company policy. Name one other major cosmetics company that offers anything like B2M. To get anything is a bonus, don't knock it.

I dont think she was knocking it Sarah. It has nothing to do with other countries laws and policies, or even our laws and policies since no law here stipulates conditions of recycling in the B2M programme. Her point was that we DO have B2M, so since we actually do have the program and the products here are the SAME, why dont we have the SAME policy in the programme as other countries who ALSO have B2M.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustDivine Yes, I know it's a privilege to have B2M in the first place, but I don't think that is the point. Unfortunately due to laws it is not allowed in some countries. That is not a decision made by MAC to deny those customers the right to B2M. In countries where it IS permitted, why can there not be B2M for e/s and lipglass? I think that is the key question, and I believe that MAC has made a choice as to allow some the entitlement to this, and to deny it to others. That is the real issue, and it saddens me to say I don't know why! p.s B2M is a privilege, yes, but MAC must be getting some benefit out of it.....beyond mere good environmental stewardship. I don't see how this is otherwise sustainable....

Agreed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by caffn8me What financial benefit does M·A·C get from the M·A·C Aids Fund? How is production of Viva Glam products sustainable financially? Don't assume that all things are down to money.

VG has nothing to do with B2M - its a charity, and we ALL know there will be tax write offs for the company as such for participating in it.

As for the cost of recycling - I want to raise a question about that. Does it actually COST MAC to recycle? It was my impression that returned items for recycling are forwarded to an approved recycling company - in which case MAC would actually be PAID for doing so..... I have never read anywhere that MAC recycles its own goods for re-use in packaging manufacture and if that were the case then MAC would not continue to have their pots, palettes etc made in China and Indonesia as the manufacturing stamping suggests.

 

[Exotica]

Quote:

Originally Posted by panda0410 I dont think she was knocking it Sarah. It has nothing to do with other countries laws and policies, or even our laws and policies since no law here stipulates conditions of recycling in the B2M programme. Her point was that we DO have B2M, so since we actually do have the program and the products here are the SAME, why dont we have the SAME policy in the programme as other countries who ALSO have B2M.

Exactly. Well said!

 

[MrsMay]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curly1908 MAC was founded with philanthropy in mind which is why it has Viva Glam (HIV/AIDS) and B2M (recycling). (They probably get a tax break for their charitable giving also.) It is my understanding that other countries have substantial recycling programs so they don't need B2M...or else their laws prevent the program. In order to B2M for something other than a lipstick in the U.S., you have to live near a MAC STORE. You can't B2M for a non-l/s product at a counter. My state does not have any MAC stores so I've never been able to get a non-l/s B2M product... Even though I'm not a fan of l/s, it's free so I don't complain. That's just me though. Other cosmetic companies don't even bother to reward loyal customers, and their prices are a lot higher.

I think this is the major issue for us girls in Australia is that we have no f/s stores apart from the pro stores in Sydney and Melbourne, hence the policy for e/s does not apply and we cannot B2M for anything other than a lippy.

I can say with certainty though that I have done B2M for all my LE lipsticks, including Mattenes (and they confirmed I could also do this for slimshines). This was at the Myer Adelaide counter, and they are happy to accept de-potted e/s and blushes.

 

[capmorlovesmac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by caffn8me I'm pretty sure Germany doesn't allow B2M either. B2M isn't a right, it's a privilege and one I am very grateful to have been able to use in the past. If it was stopped tomorrow I'd be sad but I wouldn't complain as it has served me well in the past.

We can B2M here in Germany but I think only for lipsticks.

 

[Curly1908]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrsMay I think this is the major issue for us girls in Australia is that we have no f/s stores apart from the pro stores in Sydney and Melbourne, hence the policy for e/s does not apply and we cannot B2M for anything other than a lippy. I can say with certainty though that I have done B2M for all my LE lipsticks, including Mattenes (and they confirmed I could also do this for slimshines). This was at the Myer Adelaide counter, and they are happy to accept de-potted e/s and blushes.

As I stated previously, I'm in the U.S., but my state does not have any MAC stores AT ALL. Just a few counters so the policy is the same in the U.S. as it is in Australia with that regard b/c I've never been able to B2M for a non-lipstick product even though I'd much rather receive e/s or l/g.

So I feel your pain.

 

[MrsMay]

ok, I have an update after my visit to the store today.

It seems that the B2M policy has changed, and we can no longer B2M for LE lipsticks at all regardless of whether they are special packaging.

Also - stores are not holding goods any more (or at least Myer Adelaide isnt). The reason I was given for this was that they have to make sure that they have enough to go around for everyone, "even though I know you're a mac addict". (sorry if I sound grumpy - this kinda annoyed me).