Student Adds Memorial Stone for Gunman
- Thread starter *Stargazer*
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Beauty Mark
Well-known member
Does the family want a memorial and what kind do they want?
Having never had a relative or friend who's killed people and then killed themselves, I'm not sure if I'd want a memorial or a public memorial for them.
Having never had a relative or friend who's killed people and then killed themselves, I'm not sure if I'd want a memorial or a public memorial for them.
*Stargazer*
Well-known member
I think it is very early to say unequivocally that he was mentally insane.
Not in this case, necessarily, but I don't buy that people who do things like this always have mental issues. I think that honestly, some people are just a-holes.
Not in this case, necessarily, but I don't buy that people who do things like this always have mental issues. I think that honestly, some people are just a-holes.
*Stargazer*
Well-known member
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Absolutely everything I've read from the people who knew him says that people didn't really pick on him in college. I guess there was some typical HS bs when he was younger, but all of his acquaintances have said that people just left him alone because every time someone tried to even talk to him, he just sat there silently. Anyone that tried to engage him socially got shot down so people just stopped attempting to befriend him.
Originally Posted by little teaser
i duno.. you dont know forsure if no one did something to him, he could of been pick on untill one day he just snap, im not saying this is the case but its possible. |
Absolutely everything I've read from the people who knew him says that people didn't really pick on him in college. I guess there was some typical HS bs when he was younger, but all of his acquaintances have said that people just left him alone because every time someone tried to even talk to him, he just sat there silently. Anyone that tried to engage him socially got shot down so people just stopped attempting to befriend him.
GalleyGirl
Well-known member
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No one DESERVES forgiveness. In fact, forgiveness has nothing to do with the wrong doer, but with the one who was wronged. It is their decision to come to that place in their life where they are able to forgive. And since none of us (I'm assuming) were there in the building that morning of the shooting, we have absolutely no place to say whether the shooter deserves any kind of empathy from those directly involved.
| Originally Posted by TeaCup
But he deserves forgiveness. |
No one DESERVES forgiveness. In fact, forgiveness has nothing to do with the wrong doer, but with the one who was wronged. It is their decision to come to that place in their life where they are able to forgive. And since none of us (I'm assuming) were there in the building that morning of the shooting, we have absolutely no place to say whether the shooter deserves any kind of empathy from those directly involved.
GalleyGirl
Well-known member
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I think asserting he deserves forgiveness is a little different from saying he doesn't, and here's why - The former implies that there is something wrong with the victims' morals and character, that they are so hard-headed and uncompassionate that they can't overlook the fact that the shooter had problems as well. I would never go up to a Virginia Tech student who was in the building that day, and say, "Well you know Cho was mentally ill, so you should really forgive him because mentally ill people are automatically victims by default." How insulting to those who experienced this travesty would that be?
Asserting that he doesn't deserve forgiveness doesn't lay any onus on the victims, or pressure them to come to terms with the situation before they are ready.
| Originally Posted by Shimmer
Likewise, we have no business saying he doesn't. |
I think asserting he deserves forgiveness is a little different from saying he doesn't, and here's why - The former implies that there is something wrong with the victims' morals and character, that they are so hard-headed and uncompassionate that they can't overlook the fact that the shooter had problems as well. I would never go up to a Virginia Tech student who was in the building that day, and say, "Well you know Cho was mentally ill, so you should really forgive him because mentally ill people are automatically victims by default." How insulting to those who experienced this travesty would that be?
Asserting that he doesn't deserve forgiveness doesn't lay any onus on the victims, or pressure them to come to terms with the situation before they are ready.
Beauty Mark
Well-known member
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Is that an absolute statement or is it just in the context of this discussion?
| No one DESERVES forgiveness. |
Is that an absolute statement or is it just in the context of this discussion?
GalleyGirl
Well-known member
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Absolute statement made in response to a comment regarding this discussion. Yes people can work to undo a wrong, and work towards earning forgiveness, but in my opinion, you can't demand it or state that you (or someone else) deserves it. I think to do so is really selfish, and takes away from the fact that forgiveness is 100% about the person who is doing the forgiving.
To get back onto the topic, the shooter's mental illness is obviously very sad, but in no way shape or form excuses what he did (or makes him more "deserving" of forgiveness). As other people have mentioned, he was very cognizant of his actions, and therefore cognizant of the results.
There is a huge difference between mentally ill and criminally insane!!!!!!!!!!!
| Originally Posted by Beauty Mark
Is that an absolute statement or is it just in the context of this discussion? |
Absolute statement made in response to a comment regarding this discussion. Yes people can work to undo a wrong, and work towards earning forgiveness, but in my opinion, you can't demand it or state that you (or someone else) deserves it. I think to do so is really selfish, and takes away from the fact that forgiveness is 100% about the person who is doing the forgiving.
To get back onto the topic, the shooter's mental illness is obviously very sad, but in no way shape or form excuses what he did (or makes him more "deserving" of forgiveness). As other people have mentioned, he was very cognizant of his actions, and therefore cognizant of the results.
There is a huge difference between mentally ill and criminally insane!!!!!!!!!!!
xbeatofangelx
Well-known member
well.. what is the memorial supposed to be symbolizing? It's not like it's a tribute to soldiers who died in war, it's a symbol of what was lost. I happen to agree with kaliraksha here. Besides, isn't it kind of ridiculous of us to say, "people should feel this way about him, he doesn't deserve this," etc. etc.? Who are we to judge him?
What we can say, is that we lost 33 people that day.
What we can say, is that we lost 33 people that day.
GalleyGirl
Well-known member
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Call Judgey McJudgemental, but I think it is amply fair to judge a man who killed 32 people, and deem him as undeserving of the same memorial as his victims are getting. Everyone judges people by their actions, is this really such a bad thing to admit, or are we so PC now that we extend pardons to mass murderers?
| Originally Posted by xbeatofangelx
Who are we to judge him? |
Call Judgey McJudgemental, but I think it is amply fair to judge a man who killed 32 people, and deem him as undeserving of the same memorial as his victims are getting. Everyone judges people by their actions, is this really such a bad thing to admit, or are we so PC now that we extend pardons to mass murderers?
Beauty Mark
Well-known member
Quote:
We technically did lose 33 people that day, but
And if he had lived, we would be judging him. A jury would be judging him, actually.
I'm not saying that you should never forgive this guy. But I think it's presumptuous to assume that he should be a part of a memorial when he is the reason there is memorial to begin with. I also want to know should we forgive and include people like Saddam & co. or Hitler in memorials if we were to find them extremely mentally ill? I'm not saying that what those men did are even similar to that of Cho, but where do we draw the line of memorializing people because they were suffering from mental illness?
| Originally Posted by xbeatofangelx
well.. what is the memorial supposed to be symbolizing? It's not like it's a tribute to soldiers who died in war, it's a symbol of what was lost. I happen to agree with kaliraksha here. Besides, isn't it kind of ridiculous of us to say, "people should feel this way about him, he doesn't deserve this," etc. etc.? Who are we to judge him? What we can say, is that we lost 33 people that day. |
We technically did lose 33 people that day, but
And if he had lived, we would be judging him. A jury would be judging him, actually.
I'm not saying that you should never forgive this guy. But I think it's presumptuous to assume that he should be a part of a memorial when he is the reason there is memorial to begin with. I also want to know should we forgive and include people like Saddam & co. or Hitler in memorials if we were to find them extremely mentally ill? I'm not saying that what those men did are even similar to that of Cho, but where do we draw the line of memorializing people because they were suffering from mental illness?
