The devil is in the...big box retailer?

[*Stargazer*]

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Originally Posted by Kimberleigh I've seen it, but it's still hard to dispute the number of lawsuits and the unhappiness of the employees. My problem with the documentary that they went after on Bullshit and the documentary for that matter is that it's one sided...both of them. It would be a nice comparison to see Wal-Mart up against Target on some of the complaints that both BS and the documentary cover. For all I, or anybody else know(s), Target could have just as many problems as Wal-Mart...but when I drive by the empty run-down Wal-mart in my beautiful college town to less than a block away to the Super Wal-Mart that they built on new green land, it's hard to have any sympathy for this company.

Yep, and I agree with you on many points about Walmart. The main issue that I have is that many people really enjoy working there and are grateful for the benefits that they receive from Walmart so I have a really hard time supporting the people that are adamantly opposed to WM being built in their area despite the fact that it would bring jobs that are sorely needed, which was one of the main points WM made. If you don't have A job and desperately need one, isn't any job better than nothing? That was what I took away from the BS episode, particularly from the situation that had happened in Chicago.

 

[MxAxC-_ATTACK]

I haven't had health Insurance since I turned 18 (I am 25 now)
I have been to the E.R Twice in the last year. one included a 3 Day hospital stay

If you don't have insurance, you get big discounts for paying with Cash.
I had a 30 Thousand Dollar bill which I didn't have to pay a cent for because I didn't have insurance , and was not making that kind of money. ( I am also not on welfare or any other type of "Free" U.S health care aka- "Medi-cal"

2nd E.R visit the bill went from 800 dollars, to 200 dollars. (pretty big discount) for not having insurance.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ladybug10678 Yep, and I agree with you on many points about Walmart. The main issue that I have is that many people really enjoy working there and are grateful for the benefits that they receive from Walmart so I have a really hard time supporting the people that are adamantly opposed to WM being built in their area despite the fact that it would bring jobs that are sorely needed, which was one of the main points WM made. If you don't have A job and desperately need one, isn't any job better than nothing? That was what I took away from the BS episode, particularly from the situation that had happened in Chicago.

Not really. Working at Wal-Mart can actually cost the employee money. :/
And, WM will shut down competition within a town it's in...other grocers, smaller chains, etc. as well as smaller clothing boutiques and the like.
Small business owners only stand to lose when it comes to Wal-Mart.

 

[MxAxC-_ATTACK]

It seems to me that , some wal-marts people love , and others people hate.

I guess it all comes down to who is running the particular wal-mart. I have known people who held office positions and also Managers positions with wal-mart and absolutely LOVED it. They had pretty good pay and benefits.

Others seem to loathe the place. It seems so strange that different people have such extremely different experiences with the same chain.

 

[Shimmer]

admin/management positions = totally different from cashier/floor positions.

 

[Beauty Mark]

Quote:

It seems so strange that different people have such extremely different experiences with the same chain.

See: MAC. Some people love the brand, live by it, and others wouldn't go near it. Then most people don't have a strong opinion either way.

 

[MxAxC-_ATTACK]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer admin/management positions = totally different from cashier/floor positions.

That is true. But they didn't start out as management, they started out as cashiers.

 

[Kimberleigh]

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Originally Posted by Ladybug10678 Yep, and I agree with you on many points about Walmart. The main issue that I have is that many people really enjoy working there and are grateful for the benefits that they receive from Walmart so I have a really hard time supporting the people that are adamantly opposed to WM being built in their area despite the fact that it would bring jobs that are sorely needed, which was one of the main points WM made. If you don't have A job and desperately need one, isn't any job better than nothing? That was what I took away from the BS episode, particularly from the situation that had happened in Chicago.

I completely agree with you 100%. Anything that keeps you (collective "you", not you personally) off of gov't assistance, gives you some sort of pride, and benefits society IS good (i.e. you're contributing to the economy by earning and spending). I just don't think all Wal-Marts operate in this fashion. It's hard for me to not let my disdain for Wal-mart cloud my opinion. My concern, again because I live in a liberal college town (that's not repetitive or anything *wink*), it's hard for me to see the mom & pop stores or any local business not be able to thrive in this kind of environment. I know, I know, capitalism and all, but it's still hard. Now, I won't say that I'm not a hypocrite to some extent because when our local coffee shop went out of business after 7 Starbucks went in Bloomington (home to Indiana University), I didn't picket; I bought a frappuccino.

So, I'm sure that makes me a bad person, but I readily admit my hypocrisy.

 

[Kimberleigh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer Not really. Working at Wal-Mart can actually cost the employee money. :/ And, WM will shut down competition within a town it's in...other grocers, smaller chains, etc. as well as smaller clothing boutiques and the like. Small business owners only stand to lose when it comes to Wal-Mart.

I really wish that I would READ a thread all the way through before I respond. Inevitably it looks like I'm copying everything you say!

However, I've said it before and I'll say it again. Great minds think alike!!

 

[*Stargazer*]

Ack, I'm looking at my post and I wrote WM in one spot where I meant to write BS which may confuse my point.

My point was that on that episode of BS, there was an alderman (or councilman or whatever) who was adamantly opposed to letting Walmart build in this particular section of Chicago. There was another alderwoman (or whatever) who said screw that, come to our section of Chicago because people here will be grateful to have another employer in the area where no one opens stores and people cannot find work because there are no small business and such. So Walmart did just that and the people who work at that Walmart ARE grateful to have gainful employment period.

I don't know if you can find BS on the web, but the episode is definitely worth the 30 minutes. I find myself somewhere between the "Walmart is the greatest" and "Walmart is the devil" crowds and I really enjoyed the episode.

 

[MiCHiE]

I just wish, when they open a store and cause so many others to close, that they consistently stock products and open more than 5 checkouts.

 

[redambition]

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Originally Posted by lara From someone in another universal healthcare/universal education country - I'm right there with you. It's not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but it's nice to know that no matter your situation, you always have gratis care available to you in one form or another.

me three on this one.

the universal health system is far, far from perfect. in many ways it's not good at all (like long waiting lists for elective surgery... which is essentially any surgery that does not qualify as emergency surgery or life-saving surgery).

however, it means that no matter what happens to you in life, you can go to a hospital and get treated. that creates a better quality of life for everyone, not just the people who can afford private health insurance.

oh and by the way - $900 a MONTH for health insurance in the USA? is that normal? over here, you could get an ok, basic-ish premium for $900 a year. it won't give you all sorts of fancy cover, but it will help with giving you private treatment options if you do happen to get sick or injured.

 

[Shimmer]

COBRA can be exhorbitantly expensive, yes.

 

[Tash]

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Originally Posted by Shimmer COBRA can be exhorbitantly expensive, yes.

But in the end, very much worth it. At least for me. Because of all my medical problems, my doctor bills every month are probably right around $2,000-3,000 A MONTH. Not including the $7,000 surgery I'm having done next week.

Yeah, I would be in waaay too much debt without my lovely insurance, which is one of the best in the country.

 

[lipstickandhate]

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Originally Posted by Shimmer COBRA can be exhorbitantly expensive, yes.

Interestingly, when I went to law school and my dad could no longer insure me on his policy, I checked into private healthcare v. COBRA. My law school had a terrible terrible policy which was actually only $100 less than COBRA. I found that COBRA was (although expensive!) actually competative with other private healthcare plans. I ended up paying about $400 per month v. at least $300 and in many cases, well above 400. I went to law school in NYC though so maybe that had something to do with it?

I'm torn on this issue. I feel like there has to be something better in between socialized healthcare and what we have now. I feel like a lot of it is greedy insurance and pharmeceutical companies. But then again, I don't know enough about it to reach that conclusion totally.

Also, I don't shop at WM for the reasons listed above. But I do feel torn- I like, like Ladybug and others, that they employ people who others would not and that they may provide jobs to an economically depressed area. I also think, however, that they're skirting federal labor laws and engaging in some seriously depraved activities in regards to their healthcare and benefits. Its a tough one.

 

[redambition]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer COBRA can be exhorbitantly expensive, yes.

i'll say.. that's a lot of money

Quote:

Originally Posted by lipstickandhate Interestingly, when I went to law school and my dad could no longer insure me on his policy, I checked into private healthcare v. COBRA. My law school had a terrible terrible policy which was actually only $100 less than COBRA. I found that COBRA was (although expensive!) actually competative with other private healthcare plans. I ended up paying about $400 per month v. at least $300 and in many cases, well above 400. I went to law school in NYC though so maybe that had something to do with it? I'm torn on this issue. I feel like there has to be something better in between socialized healthcare and what we have now. I feel like a lot of it is greedy insurance and pharmeceutical companies. But then again, I don't know enough about it to reach that conclusion totally. Also, I don't shop at WM for the reasons listed above. But I do feel torn- I like, like Ladybug and others, that they employ people who others would not and that they may provide jobs to an economically depressed area. I also think, however, that they're skirting federal labor laws and engaging in some seriously depraved activities in regards to their healthcare and benefits. Its a tough one.

i'm not sure i understand why so many people are against universal health care (even if it's not totally universal... say govt funded/subsidised to a certain degree, and then a private system in place for those who want it)? is it because people see their personal tax dollars being used to fund something they may not be using all the time? by that argument, a young, childless single person could argue that schools shouldn't be publicly funded because they don't have kids and won't be having any in the future. why should they pay for other people's kids to be educated?

after tax money goes to the government, it's not anyone's personal money any more. it goes into a big pool of money to be spent for the betterment of the entire country. health and education are, surely, two out of some of the most important issues in society. why shouldn't there be more equality to ensure that all people in the country have access to an adequate level of them both? it can only improve the quality of life.

 

[xIxSkyDancerxIx]

Quote:

i'm not sure i understand why so many people are against universal health care (even if it's not totally universal... say govt funded/subsidised to a certain degree, and then a private system in place for those who want it)? is it because people see their personal tax dollars being used to fund something they may not be using all the time? by that argument, a young, childless single person could argue that schools shouldn't be publicly funded because they don't have kids and won't be having any in the future. why should they pay for other people's kids to be educated? after tax money goes to the government, it's not anyone's personal money any more. it goes into a big pool of money to be spent for the betterment of the entire country. health and education are, surely, two out of some of the most important issues in society. why shouldn't there be more equality to ensure that all people in the country have access to an adequate level of them both? it can only improve the quality of life.

IMO it's because we're a capitalistic country. Our money is just that.. OUR money.. a lot of Americans believe that they should have total control over where it goes and what not. I'm not saying that there aren't people who don't think like that.. I'm kind of on the fence about this one. I think it's good that taxes go to places to help everyone. But my mom is a single parent but she makes over 100K a year (which is a lot) but she gets taxed nearly 50% of the money that she worked so hard to earn. I remember when we had to go to work with her on Sat. and Sun. and she would stay up the whole night to work just so she could support the family.

But a lot of the less fortunate people say that it's our "duty" to help them out by paying taxes and that always rubbed me the wrong way.. but still I think helping people is good so I'm not too sure.. LoL.

 

[Beauty Mark]

I replied to this on the health care thread.

To stay on topic with Wal-Mart, I'm not inherently against Big Business. I think it's a shame little Mom and Pop places are struggling, and I do my best to support them, but I think there's nothing wrong with a huge corporation coming to town, as long as they play fairly. My reasons for being against Wal-Mart is that they have shady protocal with stuff like insurance.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beauty Mark I replied to this on the health care thread. To stay on topic with Wal-Mart, I'm not inherently against Big Business. I think it's a shame little Mom and Pop places are struggling, and I do my best to support them, but I think there's nothing wrong with a huge corporation coming to town, as long as they play fairly. My reasons for being against Wal-Mart is that they have shady protocal with stuff like insurance.

play fairly doesn't = lowering prices to anything the competitor marks theirs as.
A green grocer can't lower prices as much as WM does, and WM will match and will BEAT any price a mom&pop can consider. after a point mom&pop have to go out of business.

 

[Beauty Mark]

I think in that case, the smaller store has to make a case that while they may charge more but somehow going to them is better. Buying from someone you know and trust, supporting local business, something. MAC is a lot cheaper than Vincent Longo, yet people still buy the VL. I know it's not a perfect analogy, but there are many cases where people buy the more expensive of the two, even if things are very similar and they could buy either one. I don't think it's always easy, mind you, but I think it's possible for businesses to use a different strategy to attract buyers. What makes people choose the mom and pop Italian place over Olive Garden? Some greasy one store burger joint over McDonald's or Burger King?

I don't love it, but I think within the grounds of business, it's perfectly legitimate to charge as low as you can, provided you aren't screwing over your employees or getting your merchandise from shady people or through shady means.