vegetarians/vegans/animal rights...

[jillianjiggs]

i have been curious about this for a long time.

people from this thread (http://www.specktra.net/showthread.php?t=30560) or people who are concerned about animal products in mac cosmetics...

do you use the brushes made of goat hair?

if not, understandable. if so, how do you justify it?

thanks in advance, my curiosity is killing me

 

[lara]

High grade brushes made from animal hair are sourced from shaved or clippered hair, not from hides. High grade hair farmers have a fiscal reason to keep their animals in a healthy, progressive state of living - content and healthy animals produce a better grade of hair that doesn't need carding or thermal reconditioning, and provides stable product year after year.
Unless you're vegan and therefore wouldn't use an animal-sourced brush anyway, I personally don't see an ethical issue given that MAC have stated in the past that they source hair from farms that are humane and subscribe to sustainable farming practices.

Whilst I think it's fair to ask people how they feel about using animal-sourced hair brushes, it's certainly not something that needs to justified to anyone outside the privacy of their own mind.

http://www.specktra.net/showpost.php...7&postcount=29 - contains a response from MAC regarding clipping practices.

 

[jillianjiggs]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lara High grade brushes made from animal hair are sourced from shaved or clippered hair, not from hides. High grade hair farmers have a fiscal reason to keep their animals in a healthy, progressive state of living - content and healthy animals produce a better grade of hair that doesn't need carding or thermal reconditioning, and provides stable product year after year. Unless you're vegan and therefore wouldn't use an animal-sourced brush anyway, I personally don't see an ethical issue given that MAC have stated in the past that they source hair from farms that are humane and subscribe to sustainable farming practices. Whilst I think it's fair to ask people how they feel about using animal-sourced hair brushes, it's certainly not something that needs to justified to anyone outside the privacy of their own mind. http://www.specktra.net/showpost.php...7&postcount=29 - contains a response from MAC regarding clipping practices.

thanks! i didnt mean to sound bitchy, i guess justify isnt the right word but i couldnt think of another

 

[lara]

That's fine - good that you clarified your question though, because topics like this play very close to people's hearts and things can get a little heated

 

[JediFarfy]

I didn't buy any real hair brushes at first. I finally talked to the MA and read their policies, and knew they were taken from living animals. I'm not a vegetarian or vegan for reference.

 

[ledonatella]

Agreed, I wouldn't buy them until I knew they were sourced responsibly, than of course I went crazy with the brushes!

 

[misswillow]

I don't use animal hair brushes, just synthetic. I know that many companies probably do gather their hair very humanely, but I just can't imagine a pony/squirel sitting patiently while its clipped. But then I don't wear leather and have started to phase out wool too, so I guess it fits in with that.

 

[Chic 2k6]

misswillow you'd be surprised how patient the horses are being clipped, just the nutty ones (not many) kick up a fuss at first cos of the noise of the clippers but after that they're alright.

i cant imagine what it's like for the person tryna clip a squirrel haha bless

 

[lara]

Outisde of China and Eastern Europe, squirrel hair has been almost completely phased out as a hair source used by companies that require minimum health and welfare standards for their source animals, as removing squirrel hair requires eutheniasia as squirrels are not bred to a uniform size and therefore can't be safely restrained. It's not cost-effective for farmers, and it's too expensive for companies to source.

Certain types of horse or fox hair are reconditioned and used as a replacement - you'd never know the difference.

 

[Chic 2k6]

MAC should contact me for horse fur lol my pony sheds so much fur in the spring that its enough to make 200, 187 brushes lol

 

[SARAHluvsMAC]

This thread reminded me of something my trainer said during basic...
she was like there is no need to state that a particular brush is goat hair, etc. because the last thing we need is people imaging artists dressed in all black chasing around goats with a pair of scissors

 

[Jacq-i]

I'm vegetarian, but I do have a few animal hair brushes. I'm saving up to buy the Too Faced and Urban Decay sets though.

At first my vegetarianism was only food based. Then I gave away the two pairs of suede sneakers I had. Last year I gave all my make-up (several hundred dollars worth) to my little sister. I started doing research, and found out how vegan/vegetarian friendly MAC was. I bought two eyeshadows, then suddenly I got hooked in!

I justify my brushes because I don't have the money yet, and knowing that at least the animals weren't killed for my makeup.

 

[maxcat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by misswillow I don't use animal hair brushes, just synthetic. I know that many companies probably do gather their hair very humanely, but I just can't imagine a pony/squirel sitting patiently while its clipped. But then I don't wear leather and have started to phase out wool too, so I guess it fits in with that.

Most of MAC's brushes are goat hair... and having had goat experience they're a lot like sheep and are pretty used to it. Calmer than horses.
It's a tough call. I know a lot of vegetarians use MAC b/c it's use of animal products are limited to either beeswax or lanolin (which comes from wool, not the actual sheep.)... but it's not vegan friendly depending on how strict you are - if you are total vegan your choices are pretty limited. If someone solves the beeswax issue it would be a great little company startup...

 

[FemmeNoir]

MAC also used the color ingrediant carmine, which is crushed up beetles. Gross.

 

[Jacq-i]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FemmeNoir MAC also used the color ingrediant carmine, which is crushed up beetles. Gross.

Very true, they used to use carmine. Thankfully, they do not anymore.

 

[ledonatella]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FemmeNoir MAC also used the color ingrediant carmine, which is crushed up beetles. Gross.

Yes, Carmine is gross

When I'm teaching my makeup classes and I get to the part about ingredients and what Carmine is, they can never believe anyone would use bugs in their lippies, but really it goes back to ancient times and various tribes did that, but it's not neccessary anymore...I don't know why some companies still do that or use shark emmollients in their skin products, yuck.

 

[FemmeNoir]

Carmine is listed on VGV1 lipglass and lipstick. I believe it is listed on some other product boxes, too. I'm going to check my stash!

 

[Jacq-i]

It's listed under the may or may not contain part though... Most of the MAC eye shadows have that too. FDA lets cosmetic companies give a rough idea of the ingredients are, but in order to protect the uniqueness of products, the exact ingredents are not required... Every ingredient MUST be on the list, but there can be things on the ingredient list that are not in the product at all.

Since MAC has a public, standard respose to those inquiring about ingredients, that is their legal statement. Because of people's allergies, and consumer rights, if a company states that an ingredient is NOT included, and secretly puts it in, and this is discovered, the company can be sued... BIG TIME.

The e-mail they sent includes their entire line, lipsticks, eye shadow, etc.

MAC is a smart company, and I believe they are not putting themselves in a position to be sued. So, I wouldn't worry about MAC products having carmine in them.

That being said, there are a great deal of other cosmetic companies that use glycerin, gelatin, stearic acid, and other ingredients from animal sources, since it is less expensive than their plant based counterparts.

 

[FemmeNoir]

Thank you sooo much for this info! This makes me feel much better.

I thought I had to give up a bunch of MAC lipsticks!

 

[Jacq-i]

You're welcome!! Their ingredients are one of the reasons I totally love MAC.