When is giving too much during the holiday season? (long read)

[alien21xx]

I don't know if there are other Filipino overseas workers on the board, but I am one, and this has been a pet peeve of my for the first two holiday seasons that I worked in Singapore, but not it is becoming full on hatred that I feel I cannot enjoy myself during the holiday season when I fly back to Manila:

As a background: my family for some reason has a fixation about money. People disown each other because of it (not like there's a shortage of money in the family... we're quite well off, but not filthy rich). Now generally, my relatives are of the belief that if you are working abroad and earning top dollars, then it is your obligation to help out those in the family who aren't as well off as you. And I totally agree with this.

But more recently, during the holiday season, when I fly back home to Manila for the family reunion and I start giving out my gifts or checks to said relatives that I want to help, I get rather mean-spirited jokes of "not giving enough" when I give them P500 or P1000 bills. They tell me that they want to receive $100 bills instead of peso, which they feel has little to no value at all. Asking for a little more help is fine if that particular relative is experiencing an emergency... but they're not! They just want more money. Or like when I give wrapped gifts for everyone, they complain and say I should just write them a check or something.

It's getting much worse every year that I fly home to the point where I can't enjoy myself in family reunions anymore. I feel like they're not even glad to see me return home safely and just want money out of me.

I'm not a stingy person at all; my dad has been telling me that I'm being overly generous to everyone (like I paid off a good part of all the expenses my brother had for his wedding, and tens of thousands of pesos of my mother's credit card debt, etc.) but because I these are people I love I have trouble saying no. And then when I come back to Singapore to return to work, I have little to no money left at all to even buy myself lunch until the next payday comes around.

So for the people you love, when is giving (money or gifts) too much? Also, not related to the rant above, but also relate to the holiday season, is it bad if I want to receive gifts back? I haven't gotten presents for three Christmases now, and I spend about three months worth of salary to give gifts and money to everyone I love every year. This must be one of the reasons why I feel that people are only happy to see me for the money I am bringing home.

Sorry for the long read.

 

[n_c]

In my opinion, you should not feel obligated to give out gifts, except for your immediate family of course. Especially if it sets you back 3 months salary.

 

[Willa]

I assume that it can be different from one culture to another. Here, in Canada (Quebec), I don't feel like people give gifts or money because they are obligated, but because they want to.

I once had a friend who gave me the look, because in my family we don't celebrate mother's and father's day and because we don't give gifts for these holidays.

Maybe its different in asia, I don't know, but people who acts like your family (those who ask for money) would be considered as mean people over here.

It is not considered good to ''ask'' for gifts/money... neither to complain about it.

I feel like you give a little too much.

 

[gigglegirl]

^^whole heartedly agree--perhaps you are overextending yourself. 3 months is A LOT! that's a quarter of a year you are (nicely) giving to others. To me (also from Canada) a gift shows a) you are thinking about them b) appreciate and value them and the gift whether big or small in size or cash value should be graciously accepted. If you get something you don't like (ie a sweater from Grandma or whatever it may be), I still want people to know I appreciate the thought. A gift like money yields maximum utility (happiness/satisfaction as the recipient can use it to purchase anything they want---*yay economics!*) and no matter what your family receives they should accept it, thank you for it. Acting like its not enough is like a slap in the face and would definitely make me think they appreciate money more than me. Don't let them get you down, you sound nice and giving. I wouldn't reward ungrateful people but that's my culture.

Oh and btw, I don't think its unreasonable to expect something from someone. I mean if you are helping a family in need, they could still show appreciation with at minimum a card or perhaps do/make something for you. And you are pretty generous to be helping with large debts like a wedding and credit card bills--I don't know, but I'm not a fan of doing that as does the person learn from their mistakes? I know I'll get flogged for the comment, :shrug: but I am looking at being a financial planner and have seen one to many peers rack up debt b/c they *HAVE* to have it NOW, then someone in their family (usually parents) bails them out, and gets their credit card to 0, only for them to rack it up again.

Good luck!

 

[alien21xx]

Quote:

Originally Posted by n_c In my opinion, you should not feel obligated to give out gifts, except for your immediate family of course. Especially if it sets you back 3 months salary.

I actually don't feel at all obligated to give gifts, especially during the holiday season. I am very happy to give gifts to people I love, even for no reason at all, but I guess what I'm driving at is that the comments that what I am giving is not enough is what is ruining the holidays for me.

 

[wolfsong]

Personally I think you should have a word with them about how much it is ruining it for you. I would suggest using 'i feel that...' sentences rather than 'you make me..' ones as they are more passive. I would explain that the holiday/any gifts given is done so out of love, not obligation. Saying this i have no idea how they will react - given that its a different culture/family situation to mine. Only you can decide if something will benefit you or make things worse.

If it was me and my family i'd tell them where to go. Anything given IMO should be accepted with respect and grace - even if they are not what you want/need - you shouldnt have expectations as to what you should get. Gifts arent their born right. They are a pleasant exchange of affection, and it should go both ways (even if they cant afford to buy gifts/spend what you do, can they not make nicely presented cookies or something for you? - Its the fact that they thought of you and spent the time doing it that counts, not the money value).

And yes i think that you are being too generous if you are struggling to feed yourself whilst ungrateful people get 1/4 of your annual pay. Maybe you should work out how much you need to survive, how much you need to have a good life (everyone should treat their selves now and again!), and from this find out how much you can put by each month for the relatives you think DESERVE money/gifts. Just because they are blood doesnt mean you owe them IMO! (Though again different culture).

 

[user79]

It seems like those family members have found out your weakspot of not being able to say no, and are abusing it. Feel free to just say no!!! They sound like they are being very rude and ungrateful about your efforts.

 

[Beauty Mark]

I hope you don't get offended, but that's incredibly rude of them. I think as a human being, we should help those more unfortunate than ourselves, but it is something we should want to do, not some duty thrust upon us.

I would talk to them. If they continue that behavior, I wouldn't give them anything honestly.

Because I currently have the most money out of everyone in my family, at least in their minds (but they're also the people who think that the balance in my bank account never changes, despite having to pay bills and rent), my immediate family has been really assy about gifts recently. I'm considering making donations in their names this year. Good, sizable donations in their names.

Gifts should be a sign that you care about someone and should be something you want to give, not an obligation. Unfortunately, sometimes you have to give obligatory gifts.

 

[faifai]

Oh my God, alien21xx. Your post could have been written by me! My parents immigrated to the U.S. from Bangladesh in the early 80s, and now every single time we go back to Bangladesh, our relatives ask for tons and tons of gifts. The plane tickets alone cost nearly 2 grand a person round trip for our family of 5, and then they all want all these expensive gifts. They seriously seem to think that money just grows on trees in America, because I honestly cannot see how they feel justified in asking for all these gifts that would cost THEM over a month's worth of salary to buy.

And my parents, like you, have a hard time saying no. Each of them has 6 siblings, and each sibling has 2 or more children. That's not including their extended family like aunts and uncles and mothers in law and who knows what else. That's a TON of money to spend on presents for ungrateful people! They buy my relatives more expensive gifts than they even buy for me or my sisters, which really gets to me because my relatives are neither poor nor generous with their money - they rarely give us anything in return except "oh, was the bigger gift set too expensive?" It is greed, plain and simple. It's obvious that they only want to receive and not to give.

Honestly, I really resent my relatives for acting like that. They have money, they're stingy with their money, but just because we live in the U.S. they assume we have money coming out of our ears and raining out of the sky so we should buy them things. With my parents, it's created this vicious cycle of my relatives expecting nice gifts, my parents buying them, and my relatives now believing that my parents do have the money to buy them nice gifts when they don't. It gives the relatives the wrong impression of my parents' financial status and so the next time, they ask for even MORE expensive things, or for more "help" managing their households because they're too irresponsible to manage their own finances properly.

If only to prevent that from happening to you as well, I think you should tell your relatives how you're feeling, or at the very least show them how much the things you give them are costing you - do they realize how much of a financial strain they're putting on you? They may be more likely to stfu then and stop asking and asking.

 

[SparklingWaves]

I had a few relatives (no names mentioned) that were getting greedy. I told them that if they were not pleased with the gift I would simply give that same amount money to a needy family with their name on the card. They have never complained about my gifts since then. Also, to the little spoiled kids that don't like their toys. I tell them we can go to an orphanage and can give the toy they don't like to a child who would. Same, thing, the children never complain about not liking their toys again. I don't deal with greedy people or spoiled children.

I put them back into reality. They are given a gift and it can easily be given to someone who needs it more than them. It is my choice to give it to them.

I am not putting myself in the poor house for people who don't appreciate it. What lesson am I teaching them by doing this? I don't give and get the evil eye or cursing from their mouth. If I receive the evil eye or cursing, I will snatch that present right out of your hand. You are not taking the present in the manner in which it was meant. You are unworthy of the gift.

 

[Willa]

Seriously SparklingWaves, I would do the same

But I feel ashame, when I was 12, I reacted badly to a gift.
My parents gave me a super cool walkman from Sony, you know, the yellow one

My grand mother gave a box of batteries and recording tapes
I criiiiiieeeeddddd so much
:wonder: It was like... Why are you giving this to a kid?
And all my cousins recieved radios. I was so jealous.

 

[SparklingWaves]

I have actually had (no names mentioned) one that was well over 20 y/o and ask why I didn't give them a gift and how they noticed that I gave their sibling who was still a child a gift. I said, "In my eyes, you aren't a child anymore. You are working 40 hours a week, running with multiple lovers, going to bars, and you don't bother to give a gift to me even though you can afford it now. I gave you a gift every year of your life for 20 years and you dare to stand before me asking for another. In regard to your younger sibling, I am still teaching your sibling the value of giving from the heart and not just from the wallet. Do you have any other questions for me?"

I thought they were going to faint. I think they really thought I was just going to say,"Oh, I am so sorry. I forgot. Here is a check for you". They would have just said, "Thanks". Then, they would have ran out the door to go to a meet one of their current lovers. Occasionally, I do give this person something. But, it is on my terms and it will be something that I feel they really need. BTW - They have never asked for anything again from me. When I do give them something, they thank me many times.

I should also clarify that this same individual would just show up to get collect their presents from their elders and leave. Sparkling Waves- doesn't allow people to play that way here. I was their age when I began giving to that individual.

 

[alien21xx]

Quote:

Originally Posted by faifai Oh my God, alien21xx. Your post could have been written by me!

You know, I think this is something that frequently happens with the families of people who have migrated to a first world country. And it's sad because gift-giving/receiving becomes a pain to all of us. To those on the receiving end, they will never be content with what they are getting. To those on the giving end, they will resent the people they are giving gifts to.

I have spoken to one of my aunts who normally holds the family reunions (so she speaks to everyone who attends) and I've told her that I won't give out gifts anymore if people complain about what they are receiving. It's time to put a stop to this type of nonsense, because they are really taking advantage of my love for them.

Hopefully, this will put a stop to all of the entitlement that my relatives are feeling.

I hope your parents will also be able to do this the next time you fly home.

 

[wolfsong]

SparklingWaves: Your posts make me want to high five you (and I'm so not the type to even attempt it!) - you have balls and strong beliefs lady! Two things I really admire and respect in a person.

By teaching those that get greedy with you that its not acceptable, you are most likely passing on those beliefs to future generations (if/when they have children of their own, they will most likely think twice about giving in to the 'I want, I want' attitude that their children may have i.e. not taking the easiest option to shut up said child/children - and thus passing on those morals further). It’s these little life lessons that really mould a character and allow personal growth IMO – and its something that seems very lacking in today’s society.

 

[SparklingWaves]

At times, I feel compelled to make a stand as adult, because the others adults are not doing their job. For example, One of their grandmother's was extremely sick she couldn't move some boxes in her home. She asked one of them to do it for her. She said, "I don't know how to thank you, X". This individual said, "You can give me $50 dollars". I couldn't believe six adults in the room remained silent - most importantly the individual's own mother.

I turned to that individual face and said, "You know what ___X____, one day if you are lucky; you too will grow to be old and not be physically able to move things in your home. How are you going to feel having being asked to "Pay up, Grandfather" by a so called loved one that has your blood running through their veins?

BTW -This was a person almost 20 years old at the time.

 

[alien21xx]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SparklingWaves At times, I feel compelled to make a stand as adult, because the others adults are not doing their job. For example, One of their grandmother's was extremely sick she couldn't move some boxes in her home. She asked one of them to do it for her. She said, "I don't know how to thank you, X". This individual said, "You can give me $50 dollars". I couldn't believe six adults in the room remained silent - most importantly the individual's own mother.

I cannot imagine someone doing that to an elderly person. In my belief, the elderly should be respected. And if they can no longer work now, it is our turn to give back to them for all of their contributions in making the world we live in now a little more bearable. (But really, that's a different point to argue altogether). I'm so glad you did what you had done.

 

[NutMeg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by alien21xx I cannot imagine someone doing that to an elderly person. In my belief, the elderly should be respected. And if they can no longer work now, it is our turn to give back to them for all of their contributions in making the world we live in now a little more bearable. (But really, that's a different point to argue altogether). I'm so glad you did what you had done.

I completely agree with this. When my grandma needed her hip replacement surgery she wasn't able to clean her house very well, so every weekend I would go over and clean the whole house for her. I did it for a long time before accepting money, and in the end I only did accept her money because my parents told me it would make her feel better. It is a responsibility to help the elderly members of one's family with whatever they need. That being said, to give selflessly to one's family and be totally unappreciated is not right either. Even though I feel it is my responsibility to help my grandmother, the fact that she was so appreciative made it so much easier. There are few feelings worse than being taken for granted.