Worried about my best friend...

[euphrosyne_rose]

Once again I turn to you ladies and gents for advice. I'm at a loss on what to say or do or if I should even open my mouth...

I've been best friends with J since high school but we've know each other since kindergarten. We're both 31 now. J has seen me through my train wreck relationships with men and while we haven't always agreed on things pertaining to relationships, she's always been honest with me about her feelings on the guys I've dated, i.e. she never really liked any of them. The only serious relationship she had was in high school with an on again/off again boyfriend that didn't last past graduation. She dated here and there over the years but nothing ever serious. This one guy she liked alot she dated for a couple of weeks and then eventually he stopped calling and was acting kinda fishy. I think he was married and never told her. Anyway, she always would get mad at me when I'd date someone b/c it meant I spent less time with my friends and we'd get into arguments about it. She always told me I moved too fast sometimes with guys and I would let my feelings "run away with me". She'd always tell me that if she had a serious relationship she'd never let a guy change her or have any control over her emotions, she'd spend just as much time with her friends and would never let a guy come between her and us (we have another friend who's a guy). Me and him always told her that she might see things differently once she did start dating someone she really liked b/c then she'd want to spend more time with him, etc.

Anyway, about a year and a half ago, she decided she wanted to experience living in NY and she up and moved from Louisiana to NY. She had only been there a month and she met this guy who was applying for the same job she was and he started hitting on her and she agreed to go out with him. Within a month she was spending all of her free time with him and after they had been together probably about 2-3 months, I went to visit her. He was with us everywhere we went and she was acting completely out of character, deferring to his every wish, making out with him in the cab (with me squeezed up against the door b/c we were all in the backseat together) and he even tried to get us to spend the night at his apartment so he could be with her and told me I could sleep on the couch. He seemed very clingy and I started to dislike him. It was obvious he cared about her alot and I was glad she met someone but something about him struck me the wrong way.

After they had been dating about 6 months, they moved in together and I was completely surprised just b/c she had always lectured me on moving too fast but I had always told her that everyone is different and what may be fast for one person isn't fast for another and for that reason I kept my mouth shut. Our other friend had met him at this point and told me after his visit that he also couldn't figure out why but he didn't like the b/f either. This past Christmas which wasn't quite a year for them he proposed to her and she accepted. She asked me to be MOH and I agreed. We immediately started talking about wedding plans and she came home for a visit right after Christmas for the New Year and we spent the entire time visiting and talking about wedding plans. She told me on the ride back from her parents' house that she finally understood what I had been talking about when it came to relationships and how you'll do things for someone b/c you love them and how even if you don't mean to, being in a relationship can change you as a person and she appreciated that I had never said, "I told you so". At this point I had been trying to best to let my negative feelings about this guy go b/c she seemed happy even though I still had this weird feeling about him in my stomach. She did tell me however on this trip that there are some obstacles to their getting married b/c it turns out he's here illegally and the situation that he's in is bad enough that if he gets caught, he'll be deported regardless if they're married or not and he won't be able to petition to come back to the US for 10 years. She had been doing alot of online research and it looked like there wasn't much they could do for his situation.

Since her visit at Christmas, she's told me a few stories about him that only make that feeling I have about him worse. She usually presents these incidents to me like she's just venting but in a way, I think she's starting to be unhappy. She's told me that he lied about how old he was when they first met. She told me that they get into fights b/c he always wants to be glued to her side when he's not working and she's always been independent. She told me that he drinks alot and sometimes won't get home til really late at night and he usually tells her some lame story about the trains not running and then eventually caves and tells her he went out with friends and then promises never to go out and not call her but then turns around and does it again. He works 2 jobs so they never are able to really do anything together like they used to b/c he sleeps all day on his days off. When our guy friend went to visit (our guy friend is gay), it was before she had moved in with her b/f and he had asked where our friend was going to sleep and she told him in the bed with her b/c at the time, she didn't have an extra bed. He got furious and told her she had to make our friend sleep on the floor or on a blow up mattress b/c he didn't want her sleeping together with our friend in the same bed. The old J would've gone right ahead and done what she wanted or argued with him about it but she went along with it! The final kicker for me though is when our guy friend told me last weekend that she had called him upset and wanting to vent about yet another incident where her fiance' once again came home drunk and never called her to tell her he'd be late and she finally told him she was sick of it and they got into a fight. She told him that she needed to get some air and wanted to go outside and walk around the block for a few minutes and he told her that if she walked outside she was throwing away everything and she could forget about getting married. Now, her parents have already paid half of what is owed to the venue where she's planning on getting married. She caved and let him tell her what to do-- again. I was totally blown away by that story but she hasn't come to me with it.

I don't know if I should say anything to her about it or even voice my concerns about the whole situation. Every story I hear makes me dislike him more and more. He seems possessive, childish and I'm concerned also about his illegal status, but only b/c of the implications for her. One of our other friends who lives in Colorado said she was concerned as well b/c she thinks possibly J took this relationship too fast since it was basically her first serious one since high school and is worried that she's jumping into this b/c she's afraid this may be her only chance at getting married or having someone and I've wondered the same thing. I also worry about her being unhappy but continuing down this path b/c of the time and money her parents have put into this wedding already. When I spoke to her the other day she made no mention of her fiance's ultimatum and even asked me if I was ready to put in my order for my dress for the wedding which shows she's still ready to go through with it. I know it may not sound like a lot and I'm not there to know what's really going on but does anyone think I have reason to be worried? Any advice?

 

[m4dswine]

I think you have plenty of reasons to be worried, from what you've said he sounds controlling and manipulative.

But...... it will be very very difficult to get her to see that. She has to realise it in her own time. You will also have to make a choice - if you are honest with her about your opinion of him then you risk losing her as a friend because she might not be receptive to that kind of criticism.

Be there for her, keep an eye on him and if she asks for advice give it, but try not to be too 'omg he's awful you should leave him now' because she might react badly to that, and she needs you around to support her when she finally opens her eyes.

 

[Cydonian]

For one, I just want to say that you are such a good friend -- and I think that maybe you need to sit down and talk with her. If she is as close of a friend as you imply, you two should be able to talk about anything.

Be careful not to directly attack HIM, because that will put her walls up and the rest of the conversation to her will you be you droning on (think Charlie Brown's school teachers...). So, you have to broach the subject carefully and really stress the fact that you feel like she is different, and that concerns you.

Also, if he is illegal... he may be trying to use her. They get married, he runs off with all of her money and her car, I've seen it happen to a friend of a friend.

Between you and me? I have a really bad feeling, just from reading it, that he is abusing her. I don't think physically -- but emotionally for sure. The whole "we're not getting married" thing is something one of my abusive exes used to do. It's a mental trip and even though they aren't hitting you, they may as well be. He was forcefully trying to keep her there.

Mine used to tell me that he wouldn't come visit me if I didn't do whatever it was he was telling me (usually it was me getting upset because he was letting some "old friend", always female, sleep in his bed WITH HIM while we were dating, and he told me if I didn't drop it, the upcoming visit could easily be cancelled). He lived 8 hours away and I got to see him every few weeks -- so that used to kill me and I'd give in. The person I am now would have NEVER let something like that happen... you don't sleep in a bed with another female. Out of the question. But I thought I needed him and he knew that, and he used that against me. That sounds like what is happening with her.

I don't know how to tell you to approach the whole possible abuse thing... to be honest. But I do wish you luck and I hope that she realizes the mistake she's making before it's too late.

 

[Mabelle]

Does she call you often?
If so, i would ask her next time she brings up anything remotely "incident" worthy the state of HER hapiness. I dont know if you and your male friend feel comfortable with you mentioning what she had said to him (about wanting to go for a walk and him threatening her). But i think it might be wise...
I would approach it in the fashion of "J, please don't take this the wrong way, but are you happy with him? I mean really happy, like i want to be with you, like this for 50 years happy? Because ive been listening to you vent about things that your obviously upset about, and you tell me the same stories over and over again, about things that dont seem to change. i'm just worried your unhappy. i would hate for you to find that out in 3 years or whenever because maybe youre ignoring a feeling deep down, or because your parents paid for a wedding or some other reason. i just want to know that your ok"

something like that... again, i would not mention him really unless she asks. just stress that youve been thinking about her a lot, and youve been worried for a little while.

 

[LMD84]

wow i can see why you are worried and i would definately tell her how you feel.

at the end of the day the fact that he is here illegally is bad. and could potentially get her in trouble too. plus what if he is marrying her to stay in teh country? you just don't know.

it sounds like she can't trust him because he lies quite alot of things. and the fact he is possesive and clingy is worrying and potentially could get worse. the longer she leaves it and lets him get away with being like that the worse he will get.

please speak to her when you can. she may be cross at first but she'll realise you only have her best interests at heart. good luck

 

[Dreamingeagle24]

to me, part of being a true friend is giving the tough love and being able to be compeltely open about everything. I would tell her about your feelings in a gentle way... jsut tell her the truth that you have a bad feeling about him.. maybe she would be more honest with herself if you honeslty tell her what you see.

 

[euphrosyne_rose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LMD84 wow i can see why you are worried and i would definately tell her how you feel. at the end of the day the fact that he is here illegally is bad. and could potentially get her in trouble too. plus what if he is marrying her to stay in teh country? you just don't know. it sounds like she can't trust him because he lies quite alot of things. and the fact he is possesive and clingy is worrying and potentially could get worse. the longer she leaves it and lets him get away with being like that the worse he will get. please speak to her when you can. she may be cross at first but she'll realise you only have her best interests at heart. good luck

We are both planning on visiting a mutual friend at the same time in the next couple of weeks for a "girls' weekend" so I'm going to try to talk to her then. She's been super busy lately with a new job and I don't talk to her much during the week these days.

As for his illegal fiance', from what she's told me, something with the law has changed where even if she marries him, that doesn't make a difference in his status and it won't help him if he does get caught. Then again, it could be that only applies b/c of his particular situation. She said that he told her when he got to Texas, he barely got across the border and was caught by Border Patrol but they "let him go" and he was able to travel to meet his stepdad in NY. Something about that sounds fishy to me, even if he had a relative living in the US. How would Border Patrol just LET someone go like that? Then he told her that once he got to NY where his stepdad was, he found a lawyer who advised him to not show up for his court date b/c otherwise he'd obviously be deported. This lawyer also advised him to apply for a taxpayer ID which he did get so he has no SS# but he does pay taxes. He's been in NY for about 6 years now.

If anyone has any info on immigration that would help me understand a little better anything I might be missing b/c I still find the whole situation a little fishy like I said and it seems like she's taken his explanation hook, line and sinker.

 

[nebbish]

Wow. I think you've got every right to be worried!
I've been in abusive relationships, and this sounds like the beginning of one. Not to alarm you, because abuse comes in MANY forms. When someone says "I need space," the correct response is, "alright" or something similar. Not, "if you walk out, it's over!" because that's controlling and manipulative. That right there scares me.

It's definitely hard to tell your friend 'hey, I've got a bad feeling about this' because girls in any form of abusive relationship generally don't realize that's what's going on & think it's their fault. They also tend to dish out the 'BUT HE'S NOT LIKE THIS ALL THE TIME!' excuse. He's not like that all the time, no, but he's like that at some point & that's not healthy for her. Cydonian's advice was great! Definitely don't attack him directly, but make sure she knows how you feel about how the friendship has changed.
Otherwise, you just have to be there for her & she needs to realize on her own that this isn't good.

 

[Cydonian]

Quote:

Originally Posted by euphrosyne_rose We are both planning on visiting a mutual friend at the same time in the next couple of weeks for a "girls' weekend" so I'm going to try to talk to her then. She's been super busy lately with a new job and I don't talk to her much during the week these days. As for his illegal fiance', from what she's told me, something with the law has changed where even if she marries him, that doesn't make a difference in his status and it won't help him if he does get caught. Then again, it could be that only applies b/c of his particular situation. She said that he told her when he got to Texas, he barely got across the border and was caught by Border Patrol but they "let him go" and he was able to travel to meet his stepdad in NY. Something about that sounds fishy to me, even if he had a relative living in the US. How would Border Patrol just LET someone go like that? Then he told her that once he got to NY where his stepdad was, he found a lawyer who advised him to not show up for his court date b/c otherwise he'd obviously be deported. This lawyer also advised him to apply for a taxpayer ID which he did get so he has no SS# but he does pay taxes. He's been in NY for about 6 years now. If anyone has any info on immigration that would help me understand a little better anything I might be missing b/c I still find the whole situation a little fishy like I said and it seems like she's taken his explanation hook, line and sinker.

I don't know for sure so feel free to take my statement with a grain of salt... but considering I'm currently going through the Visa process with my fiance at the moment, I kind of know how strict they are. He can't even visit me right now, as in, he cannot enter the country without possibly getting flagged as a potential illegal immigrant and getting turned away. I don't exaggerate -- we were told this by someone it happened to. So I highly doubt that what her boyfriend or whatever is saying is true.
Also, going through this process, I've found out that even when we get married -- that DOES NOT make him a citizen. If we had gotten married and then tried to file, he still has no rights as an American even though I am a citizen. So... I'm not surprised that marrying him won't fix the problem. He's illegal, period. To make it worse, if he tries to go back home and petition properly, they could delay their petition for months, even years, because of how long he's lived here. The paperwork is insanely scrutinizing.

 

[jenjunsan]

I have no knowledge about immigration and such but I was just wondering how they can get married legally if he is illegal? How are they even able to get a license?

But I would definitely try to talk to her. You'll never forgive yourself if something really bad comes out of all this and you kept your mouth closed. I agree to do it in the kindest way possible without sound like you are attacking him-if that can be done.

P.S.---Shout out from a fellow Louisiana girl! lol

 

[InspiredBlue]

I think she should get the full story on his immigration status before getting married. The best idea would be if they could visit his lawyer together, so that you friend can get a good explanation of what she is getting into.
If he says no to that, it's a HUGE red flag.

I hope you can have a good talk with your friend about all of this.

 

[Cydonian]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jenjunsan I have no knowledge about immigration and such but I was just wondering how they can get married legally if he is illegal? How are they even able to get a license?

My fiance and I could have gotten married on one of his visits here... he would just need a passport (identification of some kind) and they give you the license. The court doesn't do any research into the two people, you do have to list whether you are free to marry... i.e. divorced or whatnot, but this is why some people have run into problems where they remarried and their divorce never completely finished or something and they get in trouble.

It's easier to get married than you think =P

 

[euphrosyne_rose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jenjunsan I have no knowledge about immigration and such but I was just wondering how they can get married legally if he is illegal? How are they even able to get a license? But I would definitely try to talk to her. You'll never forgive yourself if something really bad comes out of all this and you kept your mouth closed. I agree to do it in the kindest way possible without sound like you are attacking him-if that can be done. P.S.---Shout out from a fellow Louisiana girl! lol

And a shout out to you too!! I love seeing fellow Louisiana girls on here!

From what she has told me, he doesn't even have to have a SS# to get the license. She did say that if it came down to it and he got caught, she'd go with him back to Peru which is where he's from. Supposedly if he does get caught, he can't even petition or apply to come back for TEN years. I know that people will do crazy things for love but just the fact that I know her and her views on things and her personality, it just totally BOGGLES my mind that she of all people allowed herself to get involved in this situation to begin with. I hate to say that I assumed he was illegal when she first told me they were dating, but I did assume it and I never asked her about it b/c again, I assumed that she'd tell me about it in her own time. When P, our other friend asked her about it and commented on his status, she got really pissed off and denied he was here illegally but when she visited at Xmas, she came clean with it and that's when I found out the extent of his story. She has a friend who works for a lawyer looking into some things for her and she says that he can pay a hefty fine and file some sort of paperwork and it will start the process of making him legal which I also don't get. If he pays this so called fine b/c of his status, won't that alert Immigration that he's paying that fine and it be a red flag??

I truly appreciate everyone's input and I agree now that I do need to talk to her about it all. I just don't want to see her make a mistake and go through with all this just b/c she feels like she has to. I also have a feeling just like our other friend that she may be convincing herself this is what she wants b/c she feels like she may not have another opportunity to meet anyone else.

The other thing is that in the past when she's told me some of her stories about him just to "vent" she's always portrayed him as sort of "whipped" in that he always gets upset and cries and begs for forgiveness when he's upset or irritated her and promises never to do whatever it is he did again. This last story just doesn't sound anything like what she's told me about him in the past and true it came from another source, but a reliable one and in a way, it bothers me that she hasn't confided this to me. She seems to pick and choose what she tells me and P. Alot of things she's told me she's never mentioned to him and vice versa. How do you tell someone you love and supposedly adore that if she walks outside for a breath of air that it's over?? She said he was just astonished and dumbfounded that here in the US the tradition is for the bride's family to pay for the wedding and he's been worried over it, but evidently not worried enough to keep from threatening her! She had told me awhile back that she had talked to him about going out more with his friends and not being glued to her side all the time and I briefly wondered if this last incident was his way of proving he could do things without her but frankly he doesn't strike me as being quite clever enough to realize he could do something like that. I just don't like the situation at all.

 

[snowflakelashes]

^^The whole crying upset thing is just another part of the manipulation that those guys do. Not a sign of being 'whipped' at all. Its meant to suck her back in. Trust me, I've seen that repeatedly and its starting to really irk me (one of my friends has been in an emotionally abusive situation for years and those of us who care have trid talking to her but she's not ready to leave him so... all we can do is suffer through being around that... so she knows there are people that still care about her if she ever decides she's had enough

)

 

[purrtykitty]

I'd sit down and tell her that you're worried about her and like she does for you, you want what is best for her. Make it clear that you will support her with whatever decision she chooses because if she feels she has to take sides, she'll take his in a heartbeat.

I'd also gently suggest that perhaps she look into getting a pre-nup. I'd make it sound like since she's an independent person, she'll want to protect the property she's earned on her own.

I agree this all sounds really fishy, and the likelihood of him taking off the minute he's legal sounds pretty high. That's why I think she really needs to consider a pre-nup. Not only will it protect her, but it might make him think twice about who he's marrying, i.e. not just some dumb American he can manipulate.

 

[Cydonian]

Quote:

Originally Posted by snowflakelashes ^^The whole crying upset thing is just another part of the manipulation that those guys do. Not a sign of being 'whipped' at all. Its meant to suck her back in. Trust me, I've seen that repeatedly and its starting to really irk me (one of my friends has been in an emotionally abusive situation for years and those of us who care have trid talking to her but she's not ready to leave him so... all we can do is suffer through being around that... so she knows there are people that still care about her if she ever decides she's had enough )

Agreed, coming from a terribly emotionally abusive relationship, the crying is a load of sh*t. Excuse my language. It's a game

 

[cazgh]

this is definately going to hurt your friend in the long run - lots of things dont sound right...

maybe talk to her but then never mention it again and expect her to react badly as i suspect deep down she knows all this but is feeling pretty trapped due to what has been paid out for the marriage.

this may also sound really bad - but if you are really worried about her you could report this guy to immigration anonymously depending on how severe you think the fallout is going to be. Help her to pick up the pieces and help her to get out of following him to Peru if you think she needs someone to help her say no. She may thank you for it long term when she is no longer under his influence and not really able to see things clearly due to his manipulation.

 

[kaliraksha]

Don't you wish you could buy her some time with a lawyer or a private investigator as a bacherlorette gift? It does seem to be what she needs... prenup, immigration advice, background check.

How well does she know his friends and family?

I think true friends are there to hum the tune of your song back to you when you've forgotten the words. I would tell her that you support her and her decisions no matter what because you love her, but that you want to make sure she has no doubts or is unhappy with what is going on. You need to talk to her, I don't think you will feel ok with yourself if you let it go. Don't attack him or her choices, try to listen and hope that she feels secure enough to share what is really going on. Once you've voiced your concerns, let it go and let her know that you will be there for her. She may need you sometime in the future, but the decision to seek help is ultimately hers to make.

Also, you are such a great friend! As much as I would hate being questioned about my decisions, I would hope that my friends would care about me enough to lovingly support me and give me a safe environment to explore their views.

 

[InspiredBlue]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cazgh this may also sound really bad - but if you are really worried about her you could report this guy to immigration anonymously depending on how severe you think the fallout is going to be. Help her to pick up the pieces and help her to get out of following him to Peru if you think she needs someone to help her say no. She may thank you for it long term when she is no longer under his influence and not really able to see things clearly due to his manipulation.

This was my exact thought when I first read the post, but I was too chicken to post the suggestion. So thanks for saying it.

 

[Lauren1981]

i think you should say something to her. sometimes when friends come to us to "vent" they're actually fishing for our advice and in a position where they don't know what to do and waiting for us to tell them what to do. i personally don't think SHE is sure she wants to marry this guy. i mean, he's already in a messed up situation as far as being here illegally and that would be a horrible situation for her to be in..... to go through all this bullsh*t she's going through with him and his own situation isn't stable either. when i was still in kansas city (where i'm from) there was a guy that had been living in the city for YEARS and he had been married for 15 years and had just had another baby with his wife when they found out about him. within a couple of days he was deported back to honduras and like your friends fiance has to wait 10 years to even petition to come back to the states. based off of his actions it doesn't seem like he's worth the stress and pain that sounds almost certain to follow if they get married.
it's a lot for her to think about.
so yeah, i think you should talk to her and tell her what you're feeling because she sounds unsure herself and might be waiting on you to say the same thing... you know, so she can be certain that she's making the right decision. and hey, if she doesn't like what you have to say then oh well. at least you said something.
good luck with everything...