And I thought George W. couldn't get any worse....

[Bre]

Reading this made me sick, what is going on with the American Government?? How can Bush claim that

"The bill I sign today helps secure this country, and it sends a clear message: This nation is patient and decent and fair.."

What is fair about the measures that are about to be (or already are) used on "suspected" terrorists?

"The president can now -- with the approval of Congress -- indefinitely hold people without charge, take away protections against horrific abuse, put people on trial based on hearsay evidence, authorize trials that can sentence people to death based on testimony literally beaten out of witnesses, and slam shut the courthouse door for habeas petitions," ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union) executive director Anthony Romero said.

IMO this is a crazy (and scary) abuse of power


http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=153377

 

[MxAxC-_ATTACK]

::shurg::

I think MSN also tends to be a bit Bias.

I would read several articles before you Judge.

 

[Shimmer]

*blink*
Checks and balances.

The president is not the only figure in the American lawmaking process.

I only say that to make the point that it's not "GWB" only. It's a process that elected officials have to approve. People elected by the constituency they represent.

 

[Hawkeye]

total second on both of the above posts.

MSN is very biased and i would check a couple of other places. And guess what it's not GWB here. It's the elected officials we put into office in congress who made the bill. George W. Bush did not sit there in congress and say " This is what I want you to put word for word and after I finish this you ask me to sign it" it just doesnt work that way in america. You know that.

It's the officials that do this and the president signs it.

 

[Lady_MAC]

The american government disgusts me. Like have they not taken a high school or first year university class where we learn that, uh, people will usually say anything when tortured? Or hey, how about common sense, no? Whatever happened to human rights? Do you know how scary it is to have a Bush cheerleader as a Prime Minister?

 

[Hawkeye]

The american government scares the hell out of me because even PRIOR to Bush i mean we're talking back during the carter administration we have both parties becoming idiots and wanting absolute power and taking away our freedoms. I mean it will not surprise me in any way if in my life time the US becomes a socalist country. It will not surprise me one bit.

So yes the US government scares the hell out of me too but for different reasons and I think Bush is just getting the butt of this. People would say the exact same thing. seriously everything the american forefathers fought fore is being sent down the toilet because the government preys on the ignorance of its citizens.

*shrugs* So yes we can agree that the government is very scary albiet for very different reasons of course.

 

[Bre]

The president is not the only figure in the American lawmaking process.

Of course I am not stupid enough to think this. But he is the figurehead of USA, he signed the bill and as such IMO that is where the responsibility is due

I don't claim to be an expert on US law but it seems to me that these are laws that no one should be making, by Bush nor congress or the UN or anyone

There are no excuses it is just wrong

 

[Bre]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MxAxC-_ATTACK ::shurg:: I think MSN also tends to be a bit Bias. I would read several articles before you Judge.

You're right - I will do that

 

[Lady_MAC]

Quote:

Originally Posted by youbeabitch I mean it will not surprise me in any way if in my life time the US becomes a socalist country. It will not surprise me one bit. *shrugs* So yes we can agree that the government is very scary albiet for very different reasons of course.

As a socialist, I just must ask what is wrong with socialism. Why would this not surprise you? The US becoming socialist? My god, the home of capitalism? That would definitely be surprising to me.

Yes we can agree that the government is frightening for different reasons, but in some cases the citizens of the united states *cough snakes cough* scare me even more for their reasoning behind that fear.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bre Of course I am not stupid enough to think this. But he is the figurehead of USA, he signed the bill and as such IMO that is where the responsibility is due I don't claim to be an expert on US law but it seems to me that these are laws that no one should be making, by Bush nor congress or the UN or anyone There are no excuses it is just wrong

There are varying opinions.

 

[Hawkeye]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady_MAC As a socialist, I just must ask what is wrong with socialism. Why would this not surprise you? The US becoming socialist? My god, the home of capitalism? That would definitely be surprising to me. Yes we can agree that the government is frightening for different reasons, but in some cases the citizens of the united states *cough snakes cough* scare me even more for their reasoning behind that fear.

For some people socialism works great-as it does for you.

For me, I am a strong believer in the individual and I do not think the government has any place in my decision making or where my money goes or where i go if I need health care etc. I value that freedom a little too much. Other people do not.

I think the tax system, the social security, the PC, the dependency, the eminate domain, the welfare system, the SCHOOL system and basically all government controlled entities in this country are ludricous and just one more step to ultimate control. I do not think the government should own ANYTHING I work for.

Now way back when the US founding fathers started this country we broke away from england for the reason of government control. We did not like the fact that the British Government wanted control of us when they didn't even know what the hell was going on. Yet the US citizens have crawled into bed with the idea that all this is boring and they want the government to think for us. Now we are in the exact same boat we were in over 200 years ago.

The US Government should be kicked out of our lives. Period. We should stand for individual rights. We should go back to the Jeffersonan belief that the federal government should be in our lives at a minimum and the state a little more and then the individual the rest.

But you are also Canadian I believe so you are used to things like Government controlled healthcare, dental care etc. So I can understand how you would lean towards a more Socialist viewpoint but at the same time as I'm trying to see you're viewpoint, it is imparitive that you try to see my viewpoint.

And yes, the US Government is full of snakes. Hense the constant taxation, the eminate domain, etc. I mean they feed literally off of the stupid, the ignorant, etc. And I hate to say it but I will say it because somebody needs to say it (the truth shall make people mad) that the American People are a people of stupidity and laziness. If they were not then we would know what is going on in Washington and we would fight tooth and nail to stop it. But we won't because we're lazy and stupid so we fall prey to the snake.

yes now i will get off of it

Thanks for letting me rant.

 

[MxAxC-_ATTACK]

Quote:

Originally Posted by youbeabitch For some people socialism works great-as it does for you. For me, I am a strong believer in the individual and I do not think the government has any place in my decision making or where my money goes or where i go if I need health care etc. I value that freedom a little too much. Other people do not. I think the tax system, the social security, the PC, the dependency, the eminate domain, the welfare system, the SCHOOL system and basically all government controlled entities in this country are ludricous and just one more step to ultimate control. I do not think the government should own ANYTHING I work for. Now way back when the US founding fathers started this country we broke away from england for the reason of government control. We did not like the fact that the British Government wanted control of us when they didn't even know what the hell was going on. Yet the US citizens have crawled into bed with the idea that all this is boring and they want the government to think for us. Now we are in the exact same boat we were in over 200 years ago. The US Government should be kicked out of our lives. Period. We should stand for individual rights. We should go back to the Jeffersonan belief that the federal government should be in our lives at a minimum and the state a little more and then the individual the rest. But you are also Canadian I believe so you are used to things like Government controlled healthcare, dental care etc. So I can understand how you would lean towards a more Socialist viewpoint but at the same time as I'm trying to see you're viewpoint, it is imparitive that you try to see my viewpoint. And yes, the US Government is full of snakes. Hense the constant taxation, the eminate domain, etc. I mean they feed literally off of the stupid, the ignorant, etc. And I hate to say it but I will say it because somebody needs to say it (the truth shall make people mad) that the American People are a people of stupidity and laziness. If they were not then we would know what is going on in Washington and we would fight tooth and nail to stop it. But we won't because we're lazy and stupid so we fall prey to the snake. yes now i will get off of it Thanks for letting me rant.

well said.every bit of it.