Homeschooling...

[lovekrumpet]

So, I was out with some friends a couple of days ago when we got onto the topic of homeschooling. We were all raised as either homeschoolers or unschoolers (if you don't know what that is, look for an explanation at the bottom of this post), so we sometimes just discuss our backgrounds/experiences. Well, we were sitting there when this woman comes up to us and starts to explain how our parents must not have really cared about us and our socialization/education if they had homeschooled us, seeing as the public school system is so vital in raising children. When my friends and I attempted to explain how we thought our parents actually had done something amazingly wonderful for us and that we felt we had been socialized just fine and that two out of the 5 of us were in college full-time (our ages vary from 16-17), we thought our educational needs had been met. The woman just sort of shook her head and walked off in a huff. So what do you guys think? Do you feel homeschooling/unschooling is a form of education that leaves much to be desired? What problems do you see with it? What sorts of things do you like about it? This is really just because I tend to think that people have this image of homeschoolers as bible-thumping rednecks who have 14 brothers with 12 toes and I'd really love to help people to understand what homeschooling/unschooling really is. ---- Unschooling is a form of home education that is based on the theory that children learn what they need to know when they need to know it. Homeschooling is the practice where your parent/tutor/whatever has a lesson plan/required work for you to do. In true unschooling, there are no lesson plans or required work whatsoever, you may do whatever you want all day (watching tv all day and doing no schoolwork is an example). The idea is that if children are not forced to learn, their natural curiosity will cause them to always try to learn, whereas forcing them will squish the curiosity out of them.

 

[amoona]

I'm not familiar with unschooling but I certainly don't think homeschooling is odd. I think it's something that is probably best done when the child has a tutor or something though. I don't see whats so wrong about a child getting one on one attention from a tutor instead of being stuck in a class with 30 other kids who need the same amount of attention from only one person. From what I have heard children who are homeschooled are actually in a little community and they have school dances and school clubs with other homeschooled kids in their area.

I would have loved it if my mother had the money to get me a private tutor to homeschool me. I think it would have benefitted me so muchmore to have that one on one attention.

 

[elegant-one]

We knew a family where the mother home schooled their 5 kids (by the mother alone) until they could be a freshman in high school. They were/are the MOST ill-behaved, rude, undisciplined children/adults that I personally have ever witnessed. Amongst other things, they did not develop any kind of mannered social behavior. Plus, they played ball outside & ran around all day causing trouble, but the parents insisted that their children were intelligent.

The outcome is most likely determined by the person/parent home schooling them.

 

[AppleDiva]

I do not think homeschooling is bad. I do know that homeschoolers are a part of a community of homeschoolers and they do have plenty of social interaction. From the homeschoolers I know, they seem to be bright children, somewhat more well-adjusted that other children b.c they do not have to compete for the teacher's attention as well as having access to more educational stuff.

I listen to a lot of NPR and this homeschooler kid used to call on the time on a show and made a lot of good points. If he were in a "regular" school, he would not have access to the programming. Overall, I think it can be a good thing, but there always drawbacks, so parents have to make sure they are exposed to diverse cultural and ethnic groups.

To each his or own, as long as the environment is safe, progressive and educational.

 

[AppleDiva]

Quote:

Originally Posted by elegant-one We knew a family where the mother home schooled their 5 kids (by the mother alone) until they could be a freshman in high school. They were/are the MOST ill-behaved, rude, undisciplined children/adults that I personally have ever witnessed. Amongst other things, they did not develop any kind of mannered social behavior. Plus, they played ball outside & ran around all day causing trouble, but the parents insisted that their children were intelligent. The outcome is most likely determined by the person/parent home schooling them.

Good points. That is very unfortunate. I find that if parents do not expose their children to balance, they will run amuck. I knew one family that homeschooled for the early years, they could not watch tv, eat sugar, play video games, etc. When the son went to college, he was doing all manner of drugs and alcohol. Thankfully, he is on the right track now, but what if he was taught how to be moderate and how to enjoy life.

 

[NutMeg]

I think it really depends on the individual child and the situation that homeschooling/unschooling puts them in. I personally needed the almost forced socialization of the public school system. I would not have done well socially if I was homeschooled, simply because I tend to have to be forced into socializing. That being said, I would have probably graduated years ahead of my peers if I'd been homeschooled. I think my social development was more important, personally. So yeah, I think it depends on the child.

 

[lipstickandhate]

I think homeschooling can be done well. It seems like you and your friends have all excelled at education and are well-socialized, well-developed young women too. Obviously, homeschooling worked well for you.

I think the problems with homeschooling may arise when religious is heavily involved. I have some very religious, Southern Baptist family members who have homeschooled their children since the 5th grade and personally, I think they are in for a rude awakening about the real world- if they're ever allowed to enter it. The girl is older- 20 yrs old- and goes to a Christian college where women aren't allowed to wear pants and they teach creationist science. She is the most high-handed, prudish, and holier-than-thou person I've ever met aside from her mother. She knows nothing about the rest of the world and is proudly ignorant. Her goal in life is to be a preacher's wife.

Her brother (15 yrs old) is a much naturally smarter and is very interested in computer programing and engineering. Unfortunately, without the right educational foundation, he will not have a good shot at getting into really good programs for either of these areas.

I just feel that the parents are leaving them unprepared for how competetive the real world is.

As for unschooling, sorry, I don't agree. Part of learning is being forced to learn things you don't want to, on someone else's clock, not your own. Life isn't about you always.

 

[lovekrumpet]

Yes, I very much agree as to the religious aspects of homeschooling. Yet at the same time I don't limit that to just the world of home education. I have some very deeply Christian family members who sent their daughter off to a catholic private school, didn't allow her to really associate with anyone outside of that school/her church. She never really got to understand and experience the world outside of the catholic religion, which I always find to be very sad. For unschooling, it's less of a "the world is about me" thing and more about fostering a desire to learn within a child. I have been unschooled since I was 8 years old, and I cannot thank my parents enough. Being unschooled allowed me to really explore what I was interested in as much as I wanted, my parents would always help to supply me with the books/videos I desired (from the library of course ^_^) and if I ever got stuck on something they would give me suggestions as to where I could find more information. Because of this background, I knew that I wanted to attend college as early as possible (I started in Fall of last year at the age of 16), and it allowed me to know that I wanted to major in Political Science and really get involved int he political realm in DC. During my life time I've studied everything from paleontology to journalism and literature to art to math to biology to chemistry to astronomy to religion, all at my own pace and when I wanted too. It taught me to to cherish education and always be curious about everything, not that the world is about me. =)

 

[user79]

I think homeschooling should not be practiced when it does not follow a set curriculum, like when deeply religious parents homeschool their kids and warp the rules of science and teach them that the planet was made from god and all that kind of stuff, and teach them that science is wrong and go against the normal curriculum as it would be taught in school, etc. In my opinion, that's just brainwashing kids, homeschooling should be more closely monitored.

I don't think I would ever homeschool my kids because I do think kids miss out on a lot of the social dynamics that a regular school education entails, but I don't think it's actually something that should be demonized. Some kids thrive in that kind of environment, and if they still have an outlet for social connections, I don't think it's wrong.

 

[persephonewillo]

honestly, when i saw the title of this thread my heart skipped a beat. i thought it would be yet another thread criticizing homeschooling. i see so many of them.

i'm pleasantly surprised, so far

i unschool my kids. it works well for us. but many people don't understand the idea behind unschooling. they assume we're just lazy. lazy as parents because we don't force our children to follow a set curriculum. most people assume children will NOT learn if they aren't made to follow a curriculum that MAKES them learn.

from our experience this is not true. my kids taught themselves how to read, write, do math, etc. of course we help them... when they ask. we're always ready to drop everything and get into some "school" work with them. that's a major part of unschooling... being free and open to go with the flow when the flow starts going. and when the kids are truly interested in a topic and they want to know more, they pick it up so fast it makes my head spin. when we used to follow a more set curriculum there were the usual arguments and fights i'm sure other parents encounter during homework time.

amazingly, despite not being in a public school or following a set curriculum, my kids know just as much as their publicly schooled friends do. without coercion, competition or rewards. they know it because they had a strong desire to know and we followed that urge

that said, my kids aren't geniuses. i wouldn't expect them to be. they make mistakes, they have weak points, they get into normal arguments with other kids (yes, they have friends... yes, they socialize. this is one of the main arguments "against" home/unschooling i hear all the time that is based on misunderstandings and misconceptions of what homeschooling really is). but when MY kids do these things, people blame it on the fact that they're unschooled. i hate that. however, on the flip side, i've heard plenty of things blamed on the public schools.

it really comes down to individual families. it's like any other parenting choice people make... you weigh the pros and cons and decide from there what will work best for your family

 

[elegant-one]

As this is being posted today, I believe the California Court has ruled that the person doing the home schooling must be an accredited teacher not just a parent. I don't have all the details, just heard it on the fly this afternoon.

Once again, the Government just cannot stay out of personal lives. The more options all of us have, the better off we are to make our own decisions with our own lives.

 

[Beauty Mark]

It really depends on the kind of kids and the kind of parents.

For homeschooling to work, IMO, one must:
-Be prepared to expose your kids to all subjects and as many ideas as possible. Your kid may hate math, but s/he needs to learn it, if only so s/he isn't screwed when they get to a "normal" school with college. IMO, at least with what I know and have experienced with my education/helping others with theirs, it's not necessarily that they will literally use the skills they learn in say algebra, but they learn an approach to problems and to think logically. With ideas, I knew a few homeschooled kids who were really belligerent and upset not everyone shared their super liberal ideas (granted, I shared them, but I know they're opinions).

-Give the kid plenty of social outlets to interact with all sorts of kids. I think a normal school setting conditions people in a certain way, so I believe not only so homeschooled kids have the opportunity to interact with each other but also with non-homeschooled kids.

-Know how to teach in different ways and explain well. I'm a TA, and I've had to use different approaches with different students. It isn't just knowing several ways of examining a problem, but it's sometimes just teaching them why they should care. It also boils down to some people will learn better from one person or another. Looking at this from the dance classes I take, some people I've learned better from than others.

-Patience and objectivity! You must be very patient to teach. Sometimes, kids are apathetic or struggle with getting something you perceive a very easy concept. Again, because I'm a TA, I've had to learn to be objective. For instance, I don't look at the names of the lab reports I grade, because I don't care for some students and am very fond of others. I realize that could potentially hurt my objectivity (lab reports aren't necessarily black and white, despite being in physics), which is why I never know whose lab report I'm grading until I grade it. I'd like to think that I could be an objective grader without said system, but I'm not sure.

Because I've been TAing for two terms, I've been thinking a lot about education and people.


I hate to sound negative, but I haven't had a single good experience with homeschooled kids. They've been a combination of being extremely condescending, whiny, immature, spoiled, narcissistic, and/or self-centered, because I believe they got to dictate a lot of their education/lives without boundaries. They also happen to be intelligent but I would rather have a less intelligent child and have them not have that kind of attitude.

I believe it's possible to raise them right and have them be upstanding citizens, but I also haven't experienced it yet. I do firmly believe it has much to do with the parents and what they allow.

 

[gigglegirl]

I don't really get the whole "unschooling" thing. I understand what it means but to me, I think that if you leave some kids to their own devices, they may get curious, sure and you teach them when they want but IMO school (including homeschooling where a regular school year curriculum is followed) opened my eyes to so many things I didn't know, or that my parents didn't know or forgot so I went through some of the monotony of school but there are things I think I learned that I prob wouldn't of "stumbled" upon on my own. The parents really would need to watch their kids, b/c the unschooling sounds like they want to learn when they're ready, but what if they're content to play video games for 12 hours straight?? (some boys when they get a new video game are just crazily fixated. I don't get it)

 

[persephonewillo]

Quote:

I hate to sound negative, but I haven't had a single good experience with homeschooled kids. They've been a combination of being extremely condescending, whiny, immature, spoiled, narcissistic, and/or self-centered, because I believe they got to dictate a lot of their education/lives without boundaries. They also happen to be intelligent but I would rather have a less intelligent child and have them not have that kind of attitude.

in an effort to keep this objective... you've been a TA for two terms, how many homeschooled kids have you worked with?

personally, i have a feeling you see them as all those negetive things because they might not be happy to just follow like sheep (correct me if i'm wrong). i don't see anything wrong with children having say in their education and lives. they are people too. why do we assume children would feel content to constantly be told what to do, when to do it, what to learn and when, etc, when the majority of adults would go insane being treated that way?

sorry... i think the statement you made that you'd rather have less intelligent children to deal with who didn't have attitudes rubbed me the wrong way. i thought the goal of schools was to create intelligent human beings... not sheep.

 

[pumpkincat210]

Personally I am glad i went to public school because I loved having alot of friends.
Nothing is wrong with homeschooling as long as the teacher isn't an idiot and the kids actually learn something. But they have to be disciplined.
Some conformity is okay. In adults lives we come across it all the time and cannot change it. We are constantly told what to do. Rules are there to keep order.
For the most part though i have met homeschooled people that have absolutely no social skills and it leads to some awkward moments if you have to do all the talking.

 

[JillBug]

this topic seems to be coming up in my daily life alot, because i just recently started independent study to finish up my junior year in high school.

i think that what works for one kid may not work for another and that parents should figure out what works best for their children.

i have been to all different types of schools (public, private, and now independent) and i have had so many different experinces and meet so many different people. i think no matter what type of school you are going to there are going to be pros and cons, and you just have to figure out what works best for you.

i personally like being able to go at my own pace, and i have a teacher that i can call for each subjest when i get stuck. and the charter school i am learning from has field trips and even a prom that i get to go to this year!


so i think that you can figure out how you like to learn and make it work for you!

 

[Sushi.]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkincat210 Personally I am glad i went to public school because I loved having alot of friends. Nothing is wrong with homeschooling as long as the teacher isn't an idiot and the kids actually learn something. But they have to be disciplined. Some conformity is okay. In adults lives we come across it all the time and cannot change it. We are constantly told what to do. Rules are there to keep order. For the most part though i have met homeschooled people that have absolutely no social skills and it leads to some awkward moments if you have to do all the talking.

Homeschooling does'nt mean you dont have friends, it just means you dont sit in a classroom. I personally found myself socialzing way more when i started homeschooling. (ive been homeschooling my last 3 years of school, grades 10, 11 and 12) The reason i wanted to homeschool was to hang out with my friends more actually because i would'nt have to work around my school hours. Tho the majority of my friends are older then me, if all your friends are the same age as you or younger i could see how this might make you want to stay in public school a little more. but theres nothing saying you cant go out partying with them everyweek and what not. I still see all the people i went to highschool with at parties all the time. I also have found myself getting jobs easier now that i can work in the mornings. I guess you just dont know until you do it really, cause i know i used to think that people who homeschooled their whole lives would probably have no social skills, but i can personally say that i have witnessed the opposite of this. My friend Adam, has been homeschooled his whole life, i actually met him quite a few years ago when i was still in public school, and he was always the "guy every girl wanted to be with". He came to all the parties and social events and what not so he was known just as well as everyone else. So my point is you dont have to be in a classroom to socialize.

Maybe my views are different cause ive only done homeschooling at an older age, i did go to school for the first 10 years, but i still think if a parent encourages their child to socialize there is no problem. They can join sports and this that and the other thing. If a child is kept at home with only his parents until he is 18, of course that is alot different, but thats not the schooling doing that to him thats the parent. I know sheltered kids that go to public school.

 

[CantAffordMAC]

I don't know anything about unschooling. I don't think homeschooling is weird. Or bad. Kids are cruel and schools/teachers are not always a good place or good people.

 

[Sushi.]

oh also all in all i have found that i just get my school work done faster (at least 80% faster i would say) so im really left with more time for friends. I guess it works the same then if you weigh it out. Either sit in a classroom with your friends and do your schoolwork for 10 hours or sit by yourself for 2 hours and do your work and then hang out with friends and do whatever you want for the other 8.

so its really just preference. I personally would rather concentrate on the work for the 2 hours and then go and do whatever i want. I also find myself getting better marks this way cause im actually concentrating on the work. At school i usually just screwed around and talked, which of course led to failing marks, haha. ( i also skipped alot of school, if i had'nt switched over to homeschooling i probably would have just dropped out completly, which we all know would not be a good thing)

 

[pumpkincat210]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sushi. Homeschooling does'nt mean you dont have friends, it just means you dont sit in a classroom. I personally found myself socialzing way more when i started homeschooling. (ive been homeschooling my last 3 years of school, grades 10, 11 and 12) The reason i wanted to homeschool was to hang out with my friends more actually because i would'nt have to work around my school hours. Tho the majority of my friends are older then me, if all your friends are the same age as you or younger i could see how this might make you want to stay in public school a little more. but theres nothing saying you cant go out partying with them everyweek and what not. I still see all the people i went to highschool with at parties all the time. I also have found myself getting jobs easier now that i can work in the mornings. I guess you just dont know until you do it really, cause i know i used to think that people who homeschooled their whole lives would probably have no social skills, but i can personally say that i have witnessed the opposite of this. My friend Adam, has been homeschooled his whole life, i actually met him quite a few years ago when i was still in public school, and he was always the "guy every girl wanted to be with". He came to all the parties and social events and what not so he was known just as well as everyone else. So my point is you dont have to be in a classroom to socialize. Maybe my views are different cause ive only done homeschooling at an older age, i did go to school for the first 10 years, but i still think if a parent encourages their child to socialize there is no problem. They can join sports and this that and the other thing. If a child is kept at home with only his parents until he is 18, of course that is alot different, but thats not the schooling doing that to him thats the parent. I know sheltered kids that go to public school.

My parents didn't take us to church and the only after school activities i did i hated (ballet, piano, tball), so school was the only other place where i could get social interaction. The people i know that were homeschooled were really really religious too.
I also think homeschool is good in areas where the schools are bad and low performing.