Lure Banned

[Hawkeye]

Hmm nobody here seems to be looking at the actual situation. Instead we're saying its "Stupid" and an influence of right wing conservitiveness. It is amazing that everybody is ready to blame shit on stuff that quite frankly political orientation has nothing to do with (Ooooh thats a thinker isn't it?)

First of all: God forbid anyone on here have a different opinion on the human body than you as an individual do.

Personally I think the human body is a great thing-YET I can see how in certain places it can be considered bad.

We have to think like a business person instead of going all nuts because we simply don't understand or we have a different point of view. Plus there is this amazing thing called the internet (hence how we all found out about this thing) Nothing says you have to buy from belk, all you have to do is go online or go to another store if it upsets you this much.

Lets look at it this way: You have a store in the South East. It's a department store. The South East though it is changing is considered the "Bible Belt" because there are many people raised in the fundamentle Baptist and Presbiterian ways. (Nothing wrong with that its how they were raised)

You have a department store in a fairly conservative area (Not political its based on a religious conservative).

OK so we have that-what is our target audience gonna be? Well we have department stores that really cater to the younger audience (Target, Macy's etc) so lets try to cater (makeupwise) to the more mature women out there.

OK so you cater to them using brands you know they will like and every now and then tossing in a brand for the younger folks to try to get more money out of them.

On a business decision I would have to agree with the Belk powers that be. They could sell the line but not put up the poster but maybe MAC told them they had to sell the colors but also put up the poster. Well it maybe offensive to the more mature ladies and the little kids they happen to bring in.

NOW so we have 2 conflicts here-maybe MAC refuses to let the sign go down while selling the line itself and the more mature ladies that come in to buy stuff may get upset.

Maybe With some of the prior posters hanging on the wall with MAC or whoever management got phone calls and letters and lots of disproval. Who knows?

Seriously I have to back up Belk on this one because there are many ways in my thought process that this was a very good business decision on the company's part. I don't necessarily agree with it but as a business decision yeah I can see how it could be necessary.

Department stores listen to the consumer-if you dont like it tell them.

I agree it should be consistant across the board but I do respect Belks decision to do it.

And sorry those sweat shop comments - if you have that big of a problem with sweatshops again hurt them in the wallet-but you wont be able to shop at walmart, target, k-mart, belks or come to think of it a lot of department stores for your clothing. But thats just my thoughts.

 

[Pascal]

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxcat Wonder what they did about Pam Anderson's boobs in the Viva Glam V campaign?

for reeels they were poping out of her shirt. I don't have a problem with it.

 

[Wattage]

Quote:

Originally Posted by youbeabitch First of all: God forbid anyone on here have a different opinion on the human body than you as an individual do.

It's not really a difference of opinion that is the issue here. The issue is that in 2006, we are still practicing prudence over the one thing that ties us in commonality: our bodies - naked. It is the one thing that despite all our differences, we have in common. What are we really affraid of? Do these people shower with their clothes on? How can they be in touch with their own body if these images are disturbing to them? Difference of opinion does not always apply.

Quote:

Originally Posted by youbeabitch And sorry those sweat shop comments - if you have that big of a problem with sweatshops again hurt them in the wallet-but you wont be able to shop at walmart, target, k-mart, belks or come to think of it a lot of department stores for your clothing. But thats just my thoughts.

Not only are these just your thoughts, these are reality. I can very proudly say that I make every effort possible to buy my clothes made in a fair and respectable fashion. In fact, 80% of my wardrobe comes from a Canadian owned store that makes all their house brand clothes in Canada, paying workers fare wages and employing people in our country. Furthermore, I buy runners from a company that exercises fair employment practices, making nearly all their products in the United States. I buy fair trade coffee and purchase housewares made in Canada. It is not always possible to avoid sweat shop purchases, but I do make every conscious effort. I would say I have a 95% success rate.

My bottom line is that people think the "real" issues of the world are naked people, when in fact naked people are what unite us. It makes me sick that they create issues where issues aren't, diverting themselves from the real problem - their greedy consumerist ways that drive companies to manufacture goods in unethical ways. But hey, why look at that - disliking naked people is so much easier!

It's a good thing I don't live in the States. I am too cheap to put postage on cutouts from Penthouse magazine and send many, many copies to Belk's staff and management. Oh and maybe some sweatshops photos, too....

 

[lovejam]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aprilrobin Gotta love selective morality.

Best post on this entire thread.

 

[Hawkeye]

Wattage-first of all thank you for using every effort to buy from places that dont use sweat shops

I do the same thing and its hard as hell. So I really do appreciate how hard and time consuming it can be to find places!

This is where the difference of opinion does apply:

As much as I agree with everyone on this board that in all reality the human body is nothing to be feared it does frustraite me a lot (and I didnt post WHOSE post it was that was the one that really pissed me off because that wouldve caused a whole OTHER fight!

hehe!) that people do seem very narrowminded in that their way is the highway and that every part of the world is like their part of the world and if its not its unacceptable.

For example-I am from the south. I was born and raised in the Southern U.S. And it was about 25 years ago the southern US was a LOT different from the way it is now. GA and TN as much as I hate to say it are probably the most liberal you are gonna get.

Now that being said in the mentality of many southern more mature ladies. They were brought up to always be covered up and that sex and nudity is something to be kept only in the bedroom behind closed doors and with the lights off.

When I was 18 years old the revolution began to form that nudity and sex was ok in my area and there would be so much hoopla over it. It was insanity.

Thats how they were raised that's how they were taught. I know it sounds old fashioned and in reality-it is old fashioned but thats what the Belks managers are barganing on that those mature ladies will come in and feel safe that there is no nudity there.

It is nothing more than a difference of opinion and beliefs and the backgrounds.

 

[Quiana]

Quote:

Originally Posted by midnightlouise Hello fellow Nashvillian! I went to that Mt Juliet Belk for the first time a few weeks ago because my SIL wanted to meet there, and they didn't seem very impressive in the make-up department! I doubt they'll ever get a MAC counter. (but that shopping area might be pretty amazing once they get done with it!) Looks like they also have Belk in Springfield and Gallatin, but the only Belk in TN to have MAC is in Knoxville as someone mentioned. Oh well, we have the freestanding in Green Hills, and counters in Parisian in Franklin & Hechts in Rivergate

Yeah...I think we are pretty much covered....

 

[Wattage]

Quote:

Originally Posted by youbeabitch Wattage-first of all thank you for using every effort to buy from places that dont use sweat shops I do the same thing and its hard as hell. So I really do appreciate how hard and time consuming it can be to find places! This is where the difference of opinion does apply: As much as I agree with everyone on this board that in all reality the human body is nothing to be feared it does frustraite me a lot (and I didnt post WHOSE post it was that was the one that really pissed me off because that wouldve caused a whole OTHER fight! hehe!) that people do seem very narrowminded in that their way is the highway and that every part of the world is like their part of the world and if its not its unacceptable. For example-I am from the south. I was born and raised in the Southern U.S. And it was about 25 years ago the southern US was a LOT different from the way it is now. GA and TN as much as I hate to say it are probably the most liberal you are gonna get. Now that being said in the mentality of many southern more mature ladies. They were brought up to always be covered up and that sex and nudity is something to be kept only in the bedroom behind closed doors and with the lights off. When I was 18 years old the revolution began to form that nudity and sex was ok in my area and there would be so much hoopla over it. It was insanity. Thats how they were raised that's how they were taught. I know it sounds old fashioned and in reality-it is old fashioned but thats what the Belks managers are barganing on that those mature ladies will come in and feel safe that there is no nudity there. It is nothing more than a difference of opinion and beliefs and the backgrounds.

I completely agree with you that it is difference in backgrounds and upbringings. However, just because there is a difference does not make it OK. You and I have different opinions on the issue, that is totally OK.

Once upon a time, European descendents prefered to shop exclusively in stores that were off limits to coloured people. Stores did this because it made these people feel "safe". My point not to you, but to these people is that just because you were brought up this way does not mean it's OK. In my opinion, independent of the way I was raised, fear of the human body only creates problems and cost to society. I am not saying that people shouldn't be allowed to dislike the image of a naked person. But, when we go so far as to take up company time and coddle these people, it becomes an issue that is bigger than just personal preference. Really, I could care less what each individual thinks about one issue or another, but as a collective society we need to be accountable to more than just our personal preferences. We need to be accountable to our humanity - and this includes our bodies.

If they don't like it, no sweat. Just don't look. I find many things offensive, such as putting up your national flag on your house. But do I knock on these people's doors and tell them to take it down because it is offensive to me? Never. I have the ability to reason, and I use it. At the same time, I can reason between what is my personal moral prefernce and what is best for everyone as a collective society.

I hope all this makes some sense. I really do understand what you are saying. I think there is a lot of grey area when it comes to issues like this. Furthermore, I do take into account that I am Canadian and as a result, like many Canadians I am overtly liberal and somewhat of a neo-hippie, I suppose. I think for many Canadians for whom this type of thing is completely foreign, we tend to get all up in arms thinking "how can there still be people who think this way??" It's not to say there are not these types of people in Canada, I guess it's just a case of the outsider looking in.

Thank you for sharing that you avoid sweat shop labour. It makes me so happy to know we have members on this board who can think gloablly and act locally

 

[*Stargazer*]

Here is where the "business aspect" of the argument makes little sense. More than likely, anyone offended by a woman whose breasts are COVERED isn't the type of person to be a fan of MAC and its policies (all inclusive) and the general MAC identity. So really, pulling that collection because it might offend people who aren't MAC customers anyway is rather redundant.

If the idea is to protect business because these people who become offended might stop shopping at the store entirely, then its rather shortsighted as well unless they don't show ads by companies like Calvin Klein, etc. There are WAY more risque ads for clothing companies and I am not aware that Belk's refuses to stock any of them. Please correct me if you can show me that they do refuse to stock certain brands based on sexually explicit advertising.

Personally, if I lived in this store's area, I'd refuse to shop them period. Not because I strongly feel that there is nothing wrong with the naked human form (although I do) but because I refuse to patronize someone who makes it difficult for me to get the items I am seeking. THAT seems like some seriously POOR business sense.

 

[cyens]

I dont think the issue is about the mermaid being nude, since a lot of high-end company uses nude figures.
I'm a very open persone here, I love the beauty of a naked body. And im rarely offenced by anything...

But that mermaid, its pure bad taste...

I watch porn and other things I rather not mention here.
But no jokes,
do I think that crackwhore mermaid filled with sewer gunk looks pretty? -> the anwser is no...
is I apropriate for a make-up image? No because make-up is suposed to symbolise beauty, not sewer junkies.
Am I shocked? No i've seen or heard way worst... I still think its hillarious there a whole depate about it

 

[Hawkeye]

Wattage-see i completely agree with you.

But you still have those people who DO look even if it upsets them (its kind of like people online (no offense to anyone here but if you visit MUA you know what I mean) or like a trainwreck, you just cant stop staring at it for some reason though it is tragic)

Lets agree on this point-people are strange.

Ladybug, I don't know if you've ever been to a belks store but I've been in about 8 of them and let me tell you I have never seen one sell MAC so that one in TN is pretty cool if they sell it. You can say it doesn't make sense but then again many people don't like overt sexuality, it does make them feel uncomfortable. What doesnt make sense to us probably makes more sense to management.

And as I said, if you live in the area and your upset about it dont shop there (Like you said you wouldnt if you lived in the area) and hurt them in the wallet.

 

[*Stargazer*]

Quote:

Originally Posted by youbeabitch You can say it doesn't make sense but then again many people don't like overt sexuality, it does make them feel uncomfortable. What doesnt make sense to us probably makes more sense to management.

But my point is not that pulling this ad doesn't make sense, but SELECTIVELY pulling this ad doesn't make sense. For more than one reason. Or it may make perfect sense to them, but its remains horribly hypocritical.

In the end, I think that given the way MAC collections fly of the shelves these days, they are more likely to lose money by not selling this versus the few sales they *might* lose from people who don't like the ad. BUT, since it is a private entity, they can run their business anyway they choose and suffer the consequences or reap the benefits come what may. Personally, they won't find me shopping in their stores ever again because I absolutely cannot stand selective moral stands.

 

[Hawkeye]

hehe

completely agree and understand

 

[pumpkincat210]

where are the pictures of this ad campaign?

 

[Wattage]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkincat210 where are the pictures of this ad campaign?

http://www.specktra.net/showthread.php?t=42276

 

[firefly]

it's cosmetics that mostly women are buying!! whats so wrong with seeing a gorgeous girl modeling makeup with her hair covering her chest? i didn't even stop to think about her being topless! geez...thats just waaay too conservative IMO.

 

[Wattage]

Quote:

Originally Posted by youbeabitch ...but if you visit MUA you know what I mean.. Lets agree on this point-people are strange.

Agreed... Oh MUA, that is a whole nother thread!!

And double agreed!

I truly appreciate your ability to debate in a mature and fair manner

 

[farra712]

Just to clear up why some Belk's have MAC and a lot don't, here is some info I have. Belk recently just bought McRae's and some Proffit's stores, and from what I heard when I worked at Belk: since MAC pays the department store to be there (and has a contract), Belk had to keep them when they bought out Proffit's. That is why many of the older Belk's (other than in more populated places) don't have MAC, and the newer ones do because they used to be a Proffit's or McRae's.

Also, I know I already posted, but I want to say that I am not really happy about this (as I just started freelancing and Lure has all the color from the collection that I won't get to use on people), but I am not surprised. I have lived on the Gulf Coast of Mississippi all my life, and that is just how a lot of people are in the South. It is very true that people are just raised differently here. For example, my mother is not extremely religious, but was raised that anything "different" is disgusting and looked down upon by society. So, when I got the job at MAC she cried and told me that she hoped that they didn't make me "look like them". It pissed me off and I said so, but some people will never change their outlook no matter how outdated or closed-minded it is. Maybe that is how Tim Belk (owner) feels about it...who knows...

 

[Hawkeye]

Wattage-thank you and same goes for you

I always found that the moment someone started calling names etc was the moment you lost credibility (thanks to my old debate Prof lol) It was a nice debate

Ferra-I totally understand! I was one of the lucky ones who escaped the ultra conservative side but still though, I couldn't wear any color nail polish unless it was pink, red or a beige or what color a nail color was supposed to look like, if it was orange, green, blue, purple, black it was immediately taken off if I had it on, i could only dye my hair natural colors but my friend she couldnt wear any makeup until she was 15, couldn't dye her hair period, and no peircings not even on her ears!
Sometimes you just gotta sit and go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[TechnoKitty]

I have seen several people refer to this as a difference in opinion, and that we need to think like a businees person if we don't agree with what Belk was doing. I know WHY they are doing it, I think we all understand what they say is their reason behind it. The point is, if our society would stop being so douchebag like about it, business people wouldnt have to think a certain way and do things like this. If we as a whole stopped being so ashamed of our given form and things that are completely natural to us, businesses wouldn't have to be worried about offending people, protecting people, and losing clients. I think its ridiculous that people are forced thi think like this to begin with. the views that cause things like this, those are differences of opinion and closed mindedness.

 

[luckyme]

When I was at Belk's this week, they said that will still be selling Bait and Hooked. Let me tell you, the MA's there are NOT happy about the whole not selling Lure thing, but they can do about as much as we can about it, NOTHING. Oh well, guess I will be going to Nordies for this one.