Student Adds Memorial Stone for Gunman
- Thread starter *Stargazer*
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*Stargazer*
Well-known member
LMAO. "I hate everyone who isn't C30"
Only problem is, that kinda includes white people. And since I only like white people...
Only problem is, that kinda includes white people. And since I only like white people...
Beauty Mark
Well-known member
Quote:
Over C30 then
Originally Posted by Ladybug10678
LMAO. "I hate everyone who isn't C30" Only problem is, that kinda includes white people. And since I only like white people... |
Over C30 then
*Stargazer*
Well-known member
Now how do I put you non-C30-and-under and non-WASPS on ignore?
Trunkmonkey
Well-known member
I'm a trunkmonkey I hate without discrimination. Just punch the button and point me at the target.
flowerhead
Well-known member
Quote:
His family shouldn't suffer, I'm sure they've suffered enough for spawning the fucker.
But, I hope he rots in hell, and he doesn't deserve a stone next to his poor victims.
| Originally Posted by Shimmer
So because he was a madman his family should suffer? |
His family shouldn't suffer, I'm sure they've suffered enough for spawning the fucker.
But, I hope he rots in hell, and he doesn't deserve a stone next to his poor victims.
little teaser
Well-known member
ITA with shimmer
MAC_Whore
Well-known member
I'm a bit torn on this one. I agree, the killer's family is hurting. They not only lost a son, but gained the horrible burden of guilt, anger and shame over their son's actions.
What happened to the innocent students that were murdered was horrible. It was a monsterous act of cruelty that robbed them and their families of precious time and happiness.
I agree that forgiveness is very difficult and admirable, but the student is putting her "forgiveness" in there with the public statement of the public memorial. It seems as if her opinion is really not the majority opinion and while she is entitled to have any opinion she wants, she doesn't have the priviledge of everyone liking it. She may have the right to express her grief, but it is in poor taste at this time. Just because you can do something doesn't necessarily mean you should.
Forgiveness is important in some aspects, but when you put yourself in the shoes of the families who lost someone and really imagine that it was you who lost someone who is dear to you, you can see the duality of it.
I guess I have another perspective on it as this situation has faced my family in another time and place. My grandparents were brutally murdered by some pieces of shit with guns who were looking for money for drugs. Mind you....nice neighborhood, generally crime free, just coinsidences that they happened to be there at that time. Right place, wrong time.
Like a lot of the parents and families at VT (I am guessing), I found out about it on the news before someone was able to tell me. I still can't "forgive" their murderers for doing that. The men who killed my grandparents were someone's sons. I really don't care. They gave up the right of special consideraton when they picked up a sawed off shotgun and killed my family.
Sure, perhaps their family is hurting and I can sympathize with that, but they need to keep their issue of grief seperate from mine. It just a matter of respect. I don't wish ill upon them, I just ask them to do this to make it easier for me. I don't think that is too much to ask.
What happened to the innocent students that were murdered was horrible. It was a monsterous act of cruelty that robbed them and their families of precious time and happiness.
I agree that forgiveness is very difficult and admirable, but the student is putting her "forgiveness" in there with the public statement of the public memorial. It seems as if her opinion is really not the majority opinion and while she is entitled to have any opinion she wants, she doesn't have the priviledge of everyone liking it. She may have the right to express her grief, but it is in poor taste at this time. Just because you can do something doesn't necessarily mean you should.
Forgiveness is important in some aspects, but when you put yourself in the shoes of the families who lost someone and really imagine that it was you who lost someone who is dear to you, you can see the duality of it.
I guess I have another perspective on it as this situation has faced my family in another time and place. My grandparents were brutally murdered by some pieces of shit with guns who were looking for money for drugs. Mind you....nice neighborhood, generally crime free, just coinsidences that they happened to be there at that time. Right place, wrong time.
Like a lot of the parents and families at VT (I am guessing), I found out about it on the news before someone was able to tell me. I still can't "forgive" their murderers for doing that. The men who killed my grandparents were someone's sons. I really don't care. They gave up the right of special consideraton when they picked up a sawed off shotgun and killed my family.
Sure, perhaps their family is hurting and I can sympathize with that, but they need to keep their issue of grief seperate from mine. It just a matter of respect. I don't wish ill upon them, I just ask them to do this to make it easier for me. I don't think that is too much to ask.
Beauty Mark
Well-known member
Quote:
I hate to bring it up this way, but if I were personally affected by these tragedies, I would not feel like forgiving the murderers right now.
I think it's totally appropriate to consider the family of the murderer and not villify them, but I think thinking a memorial for him now isn't right. That girl may have forgiven him, but a lot of other people haven't. It's great she can do that, but why does she feel the need to press her belief unto others? I think it's way too soon for families and friends to even consider that.
| Like a lot of the parents and families at VT (I am guessing), I found out about it on the news before someone was able to tell me. I still can't "forgive" their murderers for doing that. The men who killed my grandparents were someone's sons. I really don't care. They gave up the right of special consideraton when they picked up a sawed off shotgun and killed my family. Sure, perhaps their family is hurting and I can sympathize with that, but they need to keep their issue of grief seperate from mine. It just a matter of respect. I don't wish ill upon them, I just ask them to do this to make it easier for me. I don't think that is too much to ask. |
I hate to bring it up this way, but if I were personally affected by these tragedies, I would not feel like forgiving the murderers right now.
I think it's totally appropriate to consider the family of the murderer and not villify them, but I think thinking a memorial for him now isn't right. That girl may have forgiven him, but a lot of other people haven't. It's great she can do that, but why does she feel the need to press her belief unto others? I think it's way too soon for families and friends to even consider that.
*Stargazer*
Well-known member
Quote:
That's what I keep coming back to. Who the hell is she to tell the families of the victims that it's "morally right" to add him to the memorial? That just reeks of arrogance to me.
| Originally Posted by Beauty Mark
It's great she can do that, but why does she feel the need to press her belief unto others? I think it's way too soon for families and friends to even consider that. |
That's what I keep coming back to. Who the hell is she to tell the families of the victims that it's "morally right" to add him to the memorial? That just reeks of arrogance to me.
Beauty Mark
Well-known member
Quote:
It's very self-righteous to me and not fair to the victims and their families. I wouldn't blame them if they never forgive the shooter; those people did nothing to him and were probably strangers that he was blaming.
| That's what I keep coming back to. Who the hell is she to tell the families of the victims that it's "morally right" to add him to the memorial? That just reeks of arrogance to me. |
It's very self-righteous to me and not fair to the victims and their families. I wouldn't blame them if they never forgive the shooter; those people did nothing to him and were probably strangers that he was blaming.
kaliraksha
Well-known member
I see the stone placed there as a symbolism for loss. In truth, for me, the loss took place many many years ago. They lost that sick (and I mean this in the most medical way) kid years ago it just wasn’t warranted years ago. There is a certain sadness in me regarding his actions and death. That people’s demons can drive them to do such atrocious things and that he, for whatever reason, did not find peace in his life whenever he needed it most. I don’t want to honor him but there is melancholy that people like this exist- makes me wonder when we loose children like that. When is it too late? It’s a reminder to me that troubled people exist and somewhere along the line they are not able to reach out and get the help every person deserves. Just my two cents on what his death and actions mean to me.
The memorial stone is going to be a personal battle for each individual, if they have the emotional capacity to place it there then I respect them a great deal. If personally I was affected by the killer I don't know if I would have the capacity to overcome the grief and anger to see it there along with the other stones.
The memorial stone is going to be a personal battle for each individual, if they have the emotional capacity to place it there then I respect them a great deal. If personally I was affected by the killer I don't know if I would have the capacity to overcome the grief and anger to see it there along with the other stones.
GalleyGirl
Well-known member
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I couldn't agree more. This probably has more to do with the stone placer wanting to make a "statement" more than anything else. Otherwise she wouldn't be foisting her views on a public memorial when everyone's wounds are still fresh. Though the shooter was obviously mentally ill, he is still not on the same level of victimization that the people he killed are.
| Originally Posted by Ladybug10678
That's what I keep coming back to. Who the hell is she to tell the families of the victims that it's "morally right" to add him to the memorial? That just reeks of arrogance to me. |
I couldn't agree more. This probably has more to do with the stone placer wanting to make a "statement" more than anything else. Otherwise she wouldn't be foisting her views on a public memorial when everyone's wounds are still fresh. Though the shooter was obviously mentally ill, he is still not on the same level of victimization that the people he killed are.
kaliraksha
Well-known member
But right now there is no indication of who removed it the first time around- it could have been the school. Also, the student body is allowing it to stay- this was clearly stated in the article. I honestly believe that if even one affected person states that it is detrimental to them it will be removed due to the sensitivity of the issue.
TeaCup
Well-known member
What people dont understand is that he was mentally insane.
He was a human with a diease. True, he decided to plan this out, but mental illness can make you do..well crazy things. He was a victim of himself. With proper care and therapy he would have never done this. He would have learned to cope with his feelings.
He was court ordered to a hospital, but state hospitals realease you after a week or two, without helping you make any arrangments to contiune therapy or anything.
I understand what he did was wrong, but he deserves that memorial. He was a victim of mental illness.
I have severe mental illness, and without my meds... I can do awful things. But its not me. Its not my fault. I was born with a diease that I can't control.
I'd be fine with moving the memorial to another location maybe, out of respect and simply to make things less dramatic and painful for the families... But he deserves forgiveness.
He was a human with a diease. True, he decided to plan this out, but mental illness can make you do..well crazy things. He was a victim of himself. With proper care and therapy he would have never done this. He would have learned to cope with his feelings.
He was court ordered to a hospital, but state hospitals realease you after a week or two, without helping you make any arrangments to contiune therapy or anything.
I understand what he did was wrong, but he deserves that memorial. He was a victim of mental illness.
I have severe mental illness, and without my meds... I can do awful things. But its not me. Its not my fault. I was born with a diease that I can't control.
I'd be fine with moving the memorial to another location maybe, out of respect and simply to make things less dramatic and painful for the families... But he deserves forgiveness.
little teaser
Well-known member
Quote:
i duno.. you dont know forsure if no one did something to him, he could of been pick on untill one day he just snap, im not saying this is the case but its possible.
| Originally Posted by Beauty Mark
It's very self-righteous to me and not fair to the victims and their families. I wouldn't blame them if they never forgive the shooter; those people did nothing to him and were probably strangers that he was blaming. |
i duno.. you dont know forsure if no one did something to him, he could of been pick on untill one day he just snap, im not saying this is the case but its possible.
Dizzy
Well-known member
I think it's insulting to the families and other greiving students at Virginia Tech for her to memoralize him in the same fashion as the victims. He killed them- I feel like she's glorifying his actions in some twisted way by putting him on the same level as them.
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I agree with everything you said, up until here. I don't think he 'deserves' forgiveness any more than any other murder just because he has a mental illness. I think that takes away the victim's family's right to be angry and upset at him, and instead suggests that they should forgive him.
He may have been ill, but it doesn't change the fact that he killed 30 people in cold blood. He doesn't deserve forgiveness in my opinion.
Quote:
| Originally Posted by TeaCup
But he deserves forgiveness. |
I agree with everything you said, up until here. I don't think he 'deserves' forgiveness any more than any other murder just because he has a mental illness. I think that takes away the victim's family's right to be angry and upset at him, and instead suggests that they should forgive him.
He may have been ill, but it doesn't change the fact that he killed 30 people in cold blood. He doesn't deserve forgiveness in my opinion.
Beauty Mark
Well-known member
Quote:
There's been no indication that the people he shoot in the classrooms from what I've read. I seriously doubt he knew the professors that he shot or vice versa. I'd feel sorry for somewhat if people at school were cruel to him, but it doesn't excuse it.
I think people do understand he was mentally ill. But does that mean that he should be a part of a memorial?
Arguably, a lot of people who commit terrible crimes are mentally ill. Charles Manson, the Columbine shooters... do they deserve memorials?
I feel great sympathy towards the mentally ill, but at the same time, I don't think that a memorial at this point is something that should be done.
| i duno.. you dont know forsure if no one did something to him, he could of been pick on untill one day he just snap, im not saying this is the case but its possible. |
There's been no indication that the people he shoot in the classrooms from what I've read. I seriously doubt he knew the professors that he shot or vice versa. I'd feel sorry for somewhat if people at school were cruel to him, but it doesn't excuse it.
I think people do understand he was mentally ill. But does that mean that he should be a part of a memorial?
Arguably, a lot of people who commit terrible crimes are mentally ill. Charles Manson, the Columbine shooters... do they deserve memorials?
I feel great sympathy towards the mentally ill, but at the same time, I don't think that a memorial at this point is something that should be done.
