Euthanasia

[V15U4L_3RR0R]

What are your thoughts on this?

For those of you that don't know what it is, Euthanasia is the term used for an assisted suicide. Basically helping someone who wants to die but for whatever reason, can't do it by themselves.

There have been cases of this but more often than not, the person that helped them was jailed for manslaughter. I personally, think that it's wrong to jail someone for Euthanasia. I think that if you are in intolerable physical pain every day of your life because of a serious long term illness or you're old and debilitated and have been proved sound of mind, then it should be allowed. Obviously there should be some kind of guidelines set up with strict monitoring and so forth but I personally am pro choice on this issue.

I think the Swiss have got the right Idea when it comes to Euthanasia but then I think they've got the right idea when it comes to a lot of things. But that is for another day.

Anyways, thoughts? Has this issue affected you personally? How would you feel if someone in your family or a friend wanted it? How do you feel about death in general? Would you support the decision?

 

[Kuuipo]

A lot of scientists,doctors and nurses discuss this subject all the time. Peronally, I could never condone it. I believe in making the terminally ill comfortable, but to kill someone is something that I would never want haunting my conscience. Also, if it was legalized,where do you draw the line?Many religons and philosophies are strongly against taking lives,even if it is considered "altruistic".

 

[SparklingWaves]

I don't think this is a topic can be sliced one way or the other. Say you are a soldier and your partner has been wounded to the point he is going to die and their is no medical attention around to ally his pain. He is begging you to shoot him to get him out of extreme pain. What would you do? Let him suffer to death for 12 more hours of sheer agony till his death or shoot him to get him out of his pain.

Also, now that medicine is making people live longer ,they are going to suffer longer with illnesses. In the past, they would have died. So, we are making people die and suffer a longer death.

It's not a topic that is easy. Each case should be judged individually.

 

[Beauty Mark]

I think if you are of sound mind and wish to die because of a terminal illness, that's your choice. I think if you have a carefully worded living will, it's really your business.

I look at how we treat our pets. When they're in excruciating, irreversible pain, we put them down without their verbal consent. If someone isn't mentally ill, I think it's perfectly fine for that individual to choose to die, if s/he wants. If you don't want to die, I think you should be allowed to live

 

[kimmy]

when my dog was diagnosed with cancer, there wasn't a vet, friend or family member that hesitated to suggest i put her to sleep because she was in pain...but society finds it okay and morally "right" to keep a person in the same pain alive, even if they beg to be put out of their misery.

if someone is in such unbearable pain that they'd rather die, who are we to tell them no? who are we to not offer any assistance?

 

[flowerhead]

I'm not againt euthanasia. If someone's in so much pain they want to die with a little bit of dignity, then that's fine and their choice, as long as they have had time to reflect on it and absoloutely know it's right for them. It's actually legal in some parts of Europe like Switzerland...

 

[user79]

Quote:

Originally Posted by flowerhead I'm not againt euthanasia. If someone's in so much pain they want to die with a little bit of dignity, then that's fine and their choice, as long as they have had time to reflect on it and absoloutely know it's right for them. It's actually legal in some parts of Europe like Switzerland...

There are some laws pertaining to it but it's kind of a grey area here. There is an organization in Switzerland called Dignitas, which assists in suicide, but I think they are not allowed to actually give the killing drugs to their patients, the patient has to physically take them him or herself. But I think they help in the guidance and the counseling part of it.


I have nothing against the idea of euthanasia. I think it is every human's right to determine how he or she wants to die. Especially in cases of terminal illness, I think the idea that someone can die with dignity, is a lot more appealing than wasting away and turning into a vegetable. I don't think euthanasia can be likened to killing someone, it is assisted suicide. Killing means an act of violence, an assisted suicide to a terminally ill or suffering patient is an act of dignity.

 

[Kuuipo]

Where do you draw the line? First it sick people...then how about unemployed alcoholics and drug addicts? The ones who keep getting out of rehab only to go back to abuse? That is a hopeless,slow death....I worked at one hospital where a 53 year old travel agent with kidney failure and diabetes got an amputation and never got fitted for a prosthetic. His wife worked but used to turn his dialysis machine on for him overnight and measure the fluid in and out exchanges. Because she worked,she could not get homecare for him. The hospital said he had to be discharged. The husband, who was working till he was hospitalized was pressured into feeling he "was a burden on his wife". Being Japanese,and male, he did not want to burden his wife. The hospital pulled his dialysis catheter and stopped checking his blood sugar and giving him insulin. I was usually his nurse and at this point disagreed with this so I was reassigned-but with medical treatments withheld his body was poisones,swelled horribly,he became disoriented,comatose,and died. He was only 53. If there were more nursing homes or a second hospital on Maui,he would be alive,get physical therapy,work as a travel agent again.
We are talking people,not dogs and cats. Americans eat animals sometimes as often as three times a day without any regard to the fact that they are living beings. Although I don't eat fish or chicken,sometimes I eat fish, and I feel bad enough about that.
People are not dogs or chickens. Some people are depressed and hopeless and suicidal. Why not euthanize them? Its a Nazi-eque idea.

 

[frocher]

....

 

[V15U4L_3RR0R]

I'm not talking about killing of druggies or whatever. I'm talking about the right to die in a dignified way. We put our pets down if they are suffering and their quality of life has diminished because it would be cruel to keep them alive. Why not give people that same choice. You're making it it sound like that I'm suggesting we force weaker/disabled etc people to die. But Murder and Euthanasia are two different things.

Personally, If I was in constant physical pain and my quality of life had turned to shit, I'd want Euthanasia because it would be more dignified. And If anyone like a family member tried to stop me, I'd maybe start thinking that they were selfish. They don't want me to die because they'd feel bad.

There needs to be tight legislation on it so that people don't go crazy on it sort of thing and that no one can use it as an excuse for murder. There needs to be some kind of guidelines in place for doctors now anyway because there are people out there who will ask them to help them die and what do they do?

 

[ratmist]

I don't think anyone really knows where they stand on the issue until they have someone they dearly love asking them to help them die. I believe people should be actively involved in their medical care at every stage - including and especially in the right to die - but equally I believe it is good that a family member or loved one can refuse to participate in euthanasia. You have to live with the consequences, no matter what decision or action is taken.

I say this as someone who recently lost a dearly loved grandmother to a terminal condition. Watching her deteriorate was one of the hardest things I've ever done. She had a very detailed living will, created before Alzheimers seized her mind, that dictated everything she wanted and did not want. It covered every possible medical situation she could have been faced with. Even in that case, just following the will was not easy, but in the end we were able to do it and let her die with dignity.

 

[ratmist]

Quote:

Originally Posted by V15U4L_3RR0R Personally, If I was in constant physical pain and my quality of life had turned to shit, I'd want Euthanasia because it would be more dignified. And If anyone like a family member tried to stop me, I'd maybe start thinking that they were selfish. They don't want me to die because they'd feel bad.

In a situation like that, if you had less than six months to live (as certified by your health practitioner), you'd be referred to look into hospice care (http://www.hospicenet.org/html/concept.html). [FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Hospice affirms life and regards dying as a normal process, and neither hastens nor postpones death. Treatment would become palliative rather than curative, so your physical pain would be addressed but treatments seeking full recovery would be excluded. The end goal of hospice care is a good death.

If you mean a situation where you were compos mentis, in constant physical pain but not actually in the process of dying, and you wanted to commit suicide with the assistance and agreement of your family and loved ones, then the question is whether euthanasia in that case is right or wrong. I think it can be a good thing, but equally it's open to abuse.
[/SIZE][/FONT]

 

[V15U4L_3RR0R]

Yeah I know about hospice care and I have a lot of respect for those that do it for a living and the work of hospices. My fellers Nan just died a couple of days a go and she was in a hospice. But I certainly wouldn't want to get to the stages she was at when she was admitted into the hospice.

I may well look into a living Will along with one after death. It's something I've always wanted to prepare for early.

 

[flowerhead]

I think it's complete trite to say Euthanasia is a 'Nazi-esque idea'. Euthanasia is all about CHOICE ....

 

[Beauty Mark]

No one is saying force the decision on people or allow the mentally ill access to assisted suicide. If you wish to stay in a coma until you naturally die, that's your business. If you wish to allow dementia to take over completely and die from that, that's your choice. However, I don't want to go out like that. I'd rather die before things get severe. I'm not saying it's the right decision for everyone, but I think it's a valid choice for many.

I'm not naive or dumb enough to believe there aren't going to be mistakes. There are fatal mistakes in medical practice as is. I think the benefits are going to outweigh the few mistakes that'll come from it.

Not that this is entirely on topic, but I think this is why people need to think about their own morality and make informed, legally documented decisions.

 

[user79]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuuipo Where do you draw the line? First it sick people...then how about unemployed alcoholics and drug addicts? The ones who keep getting out of rehab only to go back to abuse? That is a hopeless,slow death....I worked at one hospital where a 53 year old travel agent with kidney failure and diabetes got an amputation and never got fitted for a prosthetic. His wife worked but used to turn his dialysis machine on for him overnight and measure the fluid in and out exchanges. Because she worked,she could not get homecare for him. The hospital said he had to be discharged. The husband, who was working till he was hospitalized was pressured into feeling he "was a burden on his wife". Being Japanese,and male, he did not want to burden his wife. The hospital pulled his dialysis catheter and stopped checking his blood sugar and giving him insulin. I was usually his nurse and at this point disagreed with this so I was reassigned-but with medical treatments withheld his body was poisones,swelled horribly,he became disoriented,comatose,and died. He was only 53. If there were more nursing homes or a second hospital on Maui,he would be alive,get physical therapy,work as a travel agent again. We are talking people,not dogs and cats. Americans eat animals sometimes as often as three times a day without any regard to the fact that they are living beings. Although I don't eat fish or chicken,sometimes I eat fish, and I feel bad enough about that. People are not dogs or chickens. Some people are depressed and hopeless and suicidal. Why not euthanize them? Its a Nazi-eque idea.

Um, I think you are confusing some issues here. Euthanasia is when a person, often someone with a terminal illness - chooses for him or herself out of free will and without extenuating constraints to end their life. They are the actors, they are not being acted upon by others. It is not when someone dies due to a lack of health care, it is when the person chooses s/he does not want to continue living, for whatever reason they might have.

That situation you described about the Japanese patient has nothing at all to do with euthanasia and is therefore an irrelevant anecdote. The story you described showcases the problems of the US healthcare system, if anything.

There is nothing "Nazi-esque" about euthanasia. That was genocide of forced extermination. I think maybe you need to familiarize yourself a bit more about the differences between these terms before you make sweeping statements as such.

 

[ratmist]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beauty Mark Not that this is entirely on topic, but I think this is why people need to think about their own morality and make informed, legally documented decisions.

Seeing my grandmother like that, I actually took her living will (all 9 pages) and re-typed it onto my laptop. It's now my living will. I altered it for my father at his request, printed out multiple copies, and it's his now as well.
When the time comes, in no matter what form death takes, I hope it makes everything as easy as possible for my loved ones.

 

[Beauty Mark]

That was smart. A lot of people are really uncomfortable thinking about death. I don't blame them, but it's going to happen. You should think about what you want to happen to your stuff, yourself, etc.

I hate sounding morbid (perhaps it's because my mother and grandmother died suddenly), but you really don't know when you're going to die. You should think about all that now vs. when you're in your 80s. You sadly might not live that long.

 

[jillianjiggs]

i love that it is being compared with putting pets to sleep. i have never thought of it that way.

there was a very famous case here in canada about this. robert latimer. he spent something like 15 years in prison (i should really know more about this, i just learned it in class. looks like i am going to fail the next test...) for mercy killing his daughter.

she was in the most unbearable state you could imagine. she had cerebral palsey to the point where she could hardly function. according to robertlatimer.net, she was unable to talk, swallow, she vomitted constantly, had multiple violent seizures, her mental age capacity was estimated at 4 or 5 months, was in CONSTANT pain ... so much more, you can read it here: http://www.robertlatimer.net/story/tracysillness.htm - it's depressing.

after reading that, imagine your child, sibling, mother, father, dear friend, anyone you love - having that.

i would find it difficult to keep them alive. something like that...is not murder. while its definitely case by case basis, and i really am not sure if i would ever be able to do it, it should be... i dont know. i dont think it should be regarded as murder.

 

[Beauty Mark]

With people who are non-consenting, it gets tricking, because there's the life insurance policy bit. Some people are afraid that if we allow euthanasia for people, that people are going to allow their children/parents/SOs to die rather than give them a shot at living, because they get the big payoff faster.

That's why I think it should be very explicit