Euthanasia

[Kuuipo]

In 2001,my Dad got diagnosed with small cell carcinoma, the most aggressive lung cancer. He said he was ok. with dying...then. He did allow himself to have a lung removes,went throught chemo,radiation,remission,reoccurrance,,heart failure,renal failure (he stopped filtering out toxins through his kidneys and I offered him one of mine),more chemo and radiation,and fluid removed off his heart and almost exsanginating (hemorraging,bleeding 0ut). I moved over 6,ooo miles to donate organs and work a new job in a strange city while nursing him. He is alive today and going to the gym in the mornings and is glad that I "talked him out of putting him to sleep like a dog".
He is my father. What am I supposed to do? Say "Oh,well, he is old and he has terminal cancer, I am going to put him to sleep ?"
I find this hard,even as a liberal person. I did take an oath to perserve life. I do believe that it would save the US a lot of money if we killed off the chronics, but after 20 years on ... I still look at every stranger and think that was someone's baby...mother...brother...wife...sister.....
I would not ever be able to kill anyone,even under a direct order.I would resign. I worked with too many tetraplegics-paralized except for brain processes-to think that life is not valuable. I did know a University of Penn. Sci prof. that had a neurological disease that destoyed everything. He could only blink. H e wrote a book,with the aid of a computer,using just blinking. Amachine breathed for him, it collected his pee, he could not move. ...yet he had a brilliant mind!!!! Sometimes he was strapped in his wheelchair,respirator and physical therapist wife intow....and not once did he think...oh my life is shit.........There is always hope. I would like to sincerely thank the University of Pennsylvania Hospital and Magee Rehab for changing my views on human existance. As medical professionals,doctors,scientists,and nurses, we continue to uphold the value of human life and support it.

If you have a relative or you yourself are intersted in termination, there are plenty of resources at your library, including The Final Exit-which explicitly lists and gives recipes for termination. Be advised, certain books are flagged and federally monitered (according to the person who is an FBI agent I have dated in the past)

 

[SparklingWaves]

My aunt has Parkinson's and she tried to kill herself a few times to no avail. Since then,she has deteriorated further to the point of being in a non-responsive state. She is bedridden and on a feeding tube. She soils on herself of course and became too much for her family to take care of. This is not what she wanted. This is the very fact why she was trying to take her own life.

She is still existing in this state and has been for years now. I can tell you I was recently told by a neurologist that I too may have Parkinson's.

I feel like her and I do not want to be existing in that state. It terrifies to think of existing in a nursing home like a vegetable. I was molested as a kid and I don't want to be molested by some sicko while I am in a nursing home, nor do I want my family to see me in a state like that.

I don't want a tube in my belly feeding me and diapers staying on my behind waiting for hours to be changed. Good, God! I want to die with dignity and not literally rot to death.

Furthermore, I don't want to be on respirators if I am a Coma with little brain activity. Just let me go and be at peace.

I would take a shot to go to sleep any day than be in a state of rotting away slowly in a nursing home.

I don't have kids, so I am really at the mercy of a nursing home. But, even if I had children, I would NOT want them to change my diapers, clothes, and see that I don't even know they are there. That would be humiliating.

As I stated earlier, there isn't a set in stone line with this. Every case is unique.

I have thought about this very topic in regards to myself. So, that's my opinion.

 

[V15U4L_3RR0R]

And it's great that he wanted to live. He made that choice. Life is prescious I agree but I stil think we should have the right to choose to die with dignity if we so choose it.

My nan died from cancer. It was running rife through her body by the time they caught it. But she chose pallietive care over curative treatment because she had done everything in this life that she wanted to do and had no reason to stay anymore. She'd had a happy and fullfilling life and decided that this was her time. So she refused treament. She was sort of commiting a more drawn out euthanasia. But it would have been selfish of us to try and convince her otherwise. This was what she wanted and we respected that. She was a happy and strong woman who did so many things for people and never asked for much in return. She died in her sleep. She wanted us to celebrate her life instead of cry and we did. She changed my veiw on death completely. She settled her life and put her house in order on her terms. And I respect that as much as I respect life.

 

[SparklingWaves]

It is actually medicine that has caused great deal of this. In the past, you got an incurable disease, it developed and you died. Now, it's very grey. You can get radical invasive surgery, medication, herbs, chemotherapy, and radiation. You may or may not have a chance. Then, if it goes into remission, how long will you be well - a year -ten years, or until some other illness takes over. That's the complicated issue. I have seen families actually get angered when a family member choose not to go through the route of man made medications or they had years of the chemotherapies and refuse to go through it again. Yes, v15u4L, you said it. It is playing a euthanasia in a way.

Here is another situation. You have an 88 y/o female complaining of chest pain in the ER. From the tests she had a mild heart attack and three almost complete blockages to the heart, the cardiac surgeon wants to do open heart surgery. The patient's family concurs. The 88 y/o is not doing well after surgery. She has stayed in the Coronary Care Unit for two months. Patients are continuing to filter in the ER at an alarming rate. The 88 y/o female gets the boot out of CCU to a telemetry floor. She is doing poorly. She becomes blue without oxygen and refuses to eat. Her incisions are not healing due to poor nutrition. The family wants to put a feeding tube in immediately. The Gastroenterologist specialist agrees. Now, the 88 y/o undergoes another surgery. She is doing better nutritionally, but mentally she appears to be totally out of it. The family complains it's the medications and that she was fine until she got into hospital.

Through out her stay, she had infections, given blood, had oxygen, feeding tubes, and in restraints. Eventually, the patient is discharged to a nursing home. All of the family live out of state and can not take a leave from their occupations.

The fact was the woman's heart had advanced heart disease. But, there was always that shadow of a hope with open heart surgery, she would be fine. She was not.

It was a gamble. The family didn't care what the woman went through to get that chance. They never even thought about what if the surgery doesn't work. Who will take care of her? They had no means of taking care of her if the surgery failed and it did.

In the past, the woman would have another heart attack eventually and died. That was it. The woman actually suffered more and did continue to suffer more than had she went home and died. She was never able to care for herself and had repeated inpatient stays.

BTW- That was an actual patient of mine.

The family did play (not consciously) a God role in how their mother was going to die. They decided to take that gamble of medical intervention to temporarily put off death no matter what the outcome. This is a common ethical decision.

 

[NutMeg]

My grandmere was diagnosed with colon cancer in February 2005, and given eighteen months to live. Since then she has been on chemo at least three separate times that I am aware of, which she was fine with because her quality of life while on the chemo at those times was remarkably normal. She spent the first two years after her diagnosis enjoying life to the fullest. She has been on a cruise to the Caribbean with my parents and aunt and uncle, back to Switzerland several times to visit family, etc. Recently the cancer in her liver worsened (it's been there since the original diagnosis), it also spread to her lungs and her stomach and her quality of life has drastically increased. She has refused further chemo at this point, and has been given about a week. She will die at home with her loved ones. But what if she had been this ill from the beginning? It's a question I ask myself. Would she have wanted to fight if she'd been so miserable? How cruel is it to ask her to suffer for over two and half years when the result would be the same? It's a hard issue... I don't really know what the answer is.

 

[Kuuipo]

Its a very sensitive issue. I have YOPD (Young Onset Parkinson's Disease. Its extremely evident. Yet I work a job and am self supporting,and have been on a number of experimental neuro drugs as wells levodopa and carbidopa and comtan for years. I have also been a rehab nurse and know that when the body often does not work,there still is a fabulous mind. I have worked with paralyzed people who do not breathe for themselves,yet have valuable,rich lives. One of my former associates was a professor who wrote a book via a computer that recorded his eye blink codes. Sure,many people might think a life that is somewhat "disabled" is not worth living,but sometimes people who really want to die change their minds and go on to live extremely fulfilling lives. There is always hope. ....I am very interested in the brain"pacemaker" surgery. Sure I have frustrating days and it bothers me when people stare...but even if I were totally immobile,I still would make the absolute best out of this gift of life.....

 

[*Stargazer*]

I have never understood how any one human can have the nerve to tell another human that they can't or shouldn't kill themselves. I firmly believe in assisted suicide. "I back Jack"

 

[Kuuipo]

Although I could never euthanize a person,I'm all for it. It would save our country billions in healthcare costs. I think a person should be able to make an appointment,get their stuff in order,be extinguished even if they are not sick. It's faster than starving,hanging,etc,and its clean,and it saves them from botching a suicide if they don't perform it correctly. I think their should be independant clinics in every city. I think if a person is over 18,they should be able to sign a form,be euthanized,and if they so desire donate any good remains or be disposed of in the way they desire.

 

[eulchen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissChievous There is nothing "Nazi-esque" about euthanasia. That was genocide of forced extermination. I think maybe you need to familiarize yourself a bit more about the differences between these terms before you make sweeping statements as such.

though the idea of euthanasia is pretty old, it was one thing amongst many others the nazis perverted in their ideology. the eugenics killings by the nazis were declared as euthanasia. so basically it is not a nazi-esque idea, considering its true meaning, i can understand if people link it that way.


on a presonal note, i do support the idea of euthanasia, but it nedds strong controls so it wont get out of hand. from what ive read so far, the hospices do appeal to me. i also believe that they are a good way to avoid conflict with the basic principles of medical ethics.