Not a Catholic? Not a true church...

Raerae

Well-known member
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070710/...her_christians

Quote:
By NICOLE WINFIELD, Associated Press Writer
2 hours, 49 minutes ago



LORENZAGO DI CADORE, Italy - Pope Benedict XVI has reasserted the universal primacy of the Roman Catholic Church, approving a document released Tuesday that says Orthodox churches were defective and that other Christian denominations were not true churches.

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Benedict approved a document from his old offices at the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith that restates church teaching on relations with other Christians. It was the second time in a week the pope has corrected what he says are erroneous interpretations of the Second Vatican Council, the 1962-65 meetings that modernized the church.

On Saturday, Benedict revisited another key aspect of Vatican II by reviving the old Latin Mass. Traditional Catholics cheered the move, but more liberal ones called it a step back from Vatican II.

Benedict, who attended Vatican II as a young theologian, has long complained about what he considers the erroneous interpretation of the council by liberals, saying it was not a break from the past but rather a renewal of church tradition.

In the latest document — formulated as five questions and answers — the Vatican seeks to set the record straight on Vatican II's ecumenical intent, saying some contemporary theological interpretation had been "erroneous or ambiguous" and had prompted confusion and doubt.

It restates key sections of a 2000 document the pope wrote when he was prefect of the congregation, "Dominus Iesus," which set off a firestorm of criticism among Protestant and other Christian denominations because it said they were not true churches but merely ecclesial communities and therefore did not have the "means of salvation."

In the new document and an accompanying commentary, which were released as the pope vacations here in Italy's Dolomite mountains, the Vatican repeated that position.

"Christ 'established here on earth' only one church," the document said. The other communities "cannot be called 'churches' in the proper sense" because they do not have apostolic succession — the ability to trace their bishops back to Christ's original apostles.

The Rev. Sara MacVane of the Anglican Centre in Rome, said there was nothing new in the document.

"I don't know what motivated it at this time," she said. "But it's important always to point out that there's the official position and there's the huge amount of friendship and fellowship and worshipping together that goes on at all levels, certainly between Anglican and Catholics and all the other groups and Catholics."

The document said Orthodox churches were indeed "churches" because they have apostolic succession and that they enjoyed "many elements of sanctification and of truth." But it said they lack something because they do not recognize the primacy of the pope — a defect, or a "wound" that harmed them, it said.

"This is obviously not compatible with the doctrine of primacy which, according to the Catholic faith, is an 'internal constitutive principle' of the very existence of a particular church," the commentary said.

Despite the harsh tone of the document, it stresses that Benedict remains committed to ecumenical dialogue.

"However, if such dialogue is to be truly constructive, it must involve not just the mutual openness of the participants but also fidelity to the identity of the Catholic faith," the commentary said.

The document, signed by the congregation prefect, U.S. Cardinal William Levada, was approved by Benedict on June 29, the feast of Sts. Peter and Paul — a major ecumenical feast day.

There was no indication about why the pope felt it necessary to release the document, particularly since his 2000 document summed up the same principles. Some analysts suggested it could be a question of internal church politics, or that it could simply be an indication of Benedict using his office as pope to again stress key doctrinal issues from his time at the congregation.

Stuff like this boggles my mind. And I'm amazed how potentially inflamatory a position like this is.

It's like a child saying, "my church is better than your church." You'd think the Pope would be happy that people were celebrating the glory of god, and not nitpicking the name of the faith they identify with.
 

*Stargazer*

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raerae
You'd think the Pope would be happy that people were celebrating the glory of god, and not nitpicking the name of the faith they identify with.

Which leads me to the conclusion that it's entirely motivated by $$$ and power grubbing.
 

pumpkincat210

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladybug10678
Which leads me to the conclusion that it's entirely motivated by $$$ and power grubbing.

sounds more like a satanic church!
 

user79

Well-known member
Might as well argue over who has the right to worship the toothfairy...

How laughable, the whole thing.
 

Shimmer

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissChievous
Might as well argue over who has the right to worship the toothfairy...


Way to insult the belief system of billions of people worldwide. Just because you don't believe it doesn't give you the right to ridicule it.
 

lipstickandhate

Well-known member
I'm Catholic and I can't stand this Pope. He is so reactionary it's scary. Not that I'm ever expecting the Church to be as liberal as I am but I would like to see it update itself, which is why I was really hoping for one of the candidates from a developing nation-- Africa or Latin America-- to become Pope. This man is ridiculous. I still remember when he issued a bull condemning Harry Potter as encouraging children to contact the devil. Hahahaha.
 

Raerae

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shimmer
Way to insult the belief system of billions of people worldwide. Just because you don't believe it doesn't give you the right to ridicule it.

I don't think she was saying anything negative about the religion...

She was pointing out how silly it is to take the position that, "I'm more christian, than you are!" that the Pope is taking. Rather than just being satisfied that there are billions of christians worshiping god.

You know... The idea that the Pope of all people should be preaching unity, not seperatism. But the Catholic church has always been fraught with schism's. Considering all the different sects of Christianity believe they are the more "correct" version, the Pope's stance is not that different than all the others. But I think it's the fact that it's such a prominent figure that makes it a little more shocking.
 

Raerae

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shimmer
That's the Pope's job to a point, but no, I don't agree with him.

Thats true. He's is the spokesman for his brand of faith. And when your selling salvation, you don't want people to buy the generic brand.
 

user79

Well-known member
To clairify my point, I think it's laughable that any religion takes a stand to say that any other religion is any less credible, when there is no proof whatsoever that any religion has any merit at all. Even more laughable when it's the same religion, be it Catholic vrs. Protestant, Sunni vrs. Shiite, etc.

They are all based on beliefs which cannot be verified, so how can anyone say that his beliefs are "more right" than another.

Combined with the fact that I do not like Catholicism and what is preaches, as much as any other religion.
 

giz2000

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raerae
I miss believeing in the toothfairy =(

Aint that the truth...life was so much simpler when we were younger...
ssad.gif
 

redambition

Well-known member
hurrah. we went from a fairly liberal pope (yes, JPII was liberal, even if in his later years he seemed the opposite to young people), to this.

so much for all the efforts of JPII in trying to promote unity amongst all christians around the world. we get this guy who then goes and divides them again.

this sort of stuff is one of the reasons that i no longer consider myself a practising catholic.
 

macslut

Well-known member
I would need your definition of "verify". If you want without a doubt, proof positive, beyond a question proof of God, then sorry, you aren't going to get it. He has chosen not to reveal Himself in that way. Prove to me He doesn't exsist. Can't do that either. I can show you evidence and that is all I can do. That is what alot of Atheists don't understand. They don't say, "show me the evidence" because there would be a line of scholars willing to do so. Many say "Show me the proof". Show me the proof that He doesn't exsist. (Oh, and I use "He" because that is the common usage. Please understand that God is a spirit and genderless. Calling God "it" doesn't sound or feel right. She is as inaccurate as He so I am going with the common thing.)
 

Tash

Well-known member
This is the reason why I'm not a religious person at all, and also the reason why I don't believe in God.

I think the Pope is making a VERY big mistake. Unless he's getting some serious money backing him up, it's only going to split the church even more which means less money for them. After all, the Catholic church is first and foremost a business.
 

Raerae

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by macslut
I would need your definition of "verify". If you want without a doubt, proof positive, beyond a question proof of God, then sorry, you aren't going to get it. He has chosen not to reveal Himself in that way. Prove to me He doesn't exsist. Can't do that either. I can show you evidence and that is all I can do. That is what alot of Atheists don't understand. They don't say, "show me the evidence" because there would be a line of scholars willing to do so. Many say "Show me the proof". Show me the proof that He doesn't exsist. (Oh, and I use "He" because that is the common usage. Please understand that God is a spirit and genderless. Calling God "it" doesn't sound or feel right. She is as inaccurate as He so I am going with the common thing.)

Show me the evidence!

*waits for line of willing scholars to show up*
 

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