Subtle Racism

hickle

Well-known member
This new woman at work asked me out of the blue today if I was Brazilian because my name sounded Brazilian to her. I explained that it wasn't and that my name is spelled the same in all the romance languages (this is true for both my given and surname). She then followed it up with "Oh some of our baby-sitters are Brazilian." I know it doesn't sound offensive by itself, but in the context, I felt like she was saying, "Are you Mexican? Because our help is Mexican, [and I see you as the help]". I'm not saying anything disparaging about either culture, but there is a huge Brazilian population around where I live. If I was Brazilian I'd be annoyed by the comparison between me and her baby-sitters, but since I'm not I'm merely annoyed because she's trying to draw parallels between me and her baby-sitters. I don't know anything about her baby-sitters, but I guarantee you I wouldn't baby-sit her kids.

This incident annoyed me and so I told other co-workers about it. I kind of feel like a tool for not saying anything to her directly at the time, but it was such a subtle slight that I couldn't really pinpoint it until I had thought about it.
 

katred

Specktra Bestie
Well, some people are just curious about other people's cultures, but because she added the bit about "some of our babysitters are Brazilian", it does sound fishy. It is like a subtle way of trying to equate anyone whose name sounds "Brazilian" (really, as you point out, Latin-derived, since most Romance languages have similarities in how they form and pronounce names) with their hired help.

It is, as you point out, subtle, but I'm as white as bleached flour and I can see why the comment got under your skin (whatever colour it is).
 

LMD84

Well-known member
Well, some people are just curious about other people's cultures, but because she added the bit about "some of our babysitters are Brazilian", it does sound fishy. It is like a subtle way of trying to equate anyone whose name sounds "Brazilian" (really, as you point out, Latin-derived, since most Romance languages have similarities in how they form and pronounce names) with their hired help.

It is, as you point out, subtle, but I'm as white as bleached flour and I can see why the comment got under your skin (whatever colour it is).
yeah i agree that she did not need to add the part about the babysitters. i guess she is just a little ignorant. i understand what it annoyed you.
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sayah

Well-known member
Absolutely, the part about her baby-sitters brought it over the line. I wonder though if she's even aware of it?

Not that it's any excuse though. Bad woman.
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ShesAFoxyLady

Well-known member
Perhaps she honestly was just curious where your name originated from, and she might not have actually meant anything by the babysitter comment - it might have just been one of those stupid irrelevant comments people say when trying to make conversation or trying to link to the topic of conversation. Like, oh your sister likes hockey - I used to work with someone who's brother liked hockey! I know that's a trivial comparison, but I just mean that perhaps her comment wasn't meant as a slight at all.

Also, did she give any reason for you to think she might think less of her 'babysitters' just because she pays them? I don't think we should automatically assume that just because someone is 'hired help' that they will be thought less of.

I think some people I know could come out with a comment like this and be totally shocked if they realised how it had came across. So perhaps give her the benefit of the doubt this time, unless the tone she said it in (or other things she has said) give you more cause to believe it wasn't innocent?
 

hickle

Well-known member
She just has a reputation around the office for looking down on other people. This is coming from her peers, not just people who work below her like me. I just feel like I would never say to someone, "Are you Indian? My cab drivers are usually Indian." and similarly, I don't like her making a comparison between me and an unskilled laborer.

While I understand that baby-sitters can come from all different backgrounds, for the most part, there's no 4-year degree requirement for their job, whereas my position does require a 4-year degree. I know baby-sitters are most likely trained in CPR and may even have a formal degree in child rearing, however, I don't think these are job requirements. This is part of the reason I disliked the comparison between me and her baby-sitters. The other reason I disliked this is because she was equivocating that all Brazilians are baby-sitters. At the very least, she was saying that she views Brazilians as baby-sitters because the only Brazilians she knows are baby-sitters. Like I said, I don't think anyone would think it was okay to tell someone "Are you [insert ethnicity here]? My garbage men/cleaning ladies/cab drivers/bus boys/clerks at the convenience store/etc. have mostly been [insert aforementioned ethnicity here]."

This is the only racially-tinged comment she's made to me, but after getting to know her a little better, I'm sure beyond a shadow of a doubt that she's very sheltered and has little to no experience dealing with diversity. I mentioned the other day that I had been cohabitating for 8 years, and she was definitely judgmental about it but kept her opinions mostly to herself. I feel bad for her because she's almost 40 and it sounds like she's just never been exposed to much variety in her life time. It's just hard to be sympathetic towards someone when they're disrespecting you.
 

kimmy

Well-known member
Quote: Originally Posted by hickle I don't like her making a comparison between me and an unskilled laborer.



then later in the very same post you say that it's difficult to by sympathetic towards someone when they're disrespecting you. the quoted comment appears very disrespectful to "unskilled laborers" like myself whose jobs don't require four year degrees.
 

User38

Well-known member
oy

I am past the point of being annoyed with anything that smacks of racist.. it is so last century.

I am latina, don't look it and that in and of itself is another form of racist as I always get the "oh you don't look latina bs".. and I am glad to tell them my grandmother was an Aztec princess and that usually shuts them up cause the ignorance trickles down to the Princess word.

just ignore ignorance -- no use getting upset or in it's face there are more of them than there are of us.
 

hickle

Well-known member
I didn't say anything negative about unskilled laborers. I'm saying that I've spent years in school, worked my butt off to get my education, and I don't appreciate the comparison between myself and an unskilled laborer because we look alike or have similar names. Aside from maybe looking Brazilian or having a Brazilian-sounding name, I'm nothing like her baby-sitters. Most importantly, I hate kids. I don't know what her perception of her baby-sitters is, but I'm guessing she probably thinks they're all illegal immigrants, and uneducated. Whether they are or not doesn't matter. I just don't appreciate the comparison between me and her stereotype of Brazilians. If I was Brazilian, I'd be more pissed that she was stereotyping me, and again, I'd want to make the distinction that I'm an individual, not whatever stereotype she's concocted.
 

kimmy

Well-known member
my point being that i was offended by your unskilled laborer comment. you apparently didn't mean it the way i took it, just as she may not have meant her comment to be taken the way you took it.

the way you are talking about baby sitters appears very condescending to me. i personally could not be a baby sitter, i have alot of respect for people who do that job and have the patience and specified knowledge it requires. just because they don't have college degrees doesn't make them "unskilled laborers" nor does it make them beneath you because you do have a degree.

i could understand if she was comparing you to some criminal because of your heritage, why you'd be offended. but being offended because she drew an obscure "comparison" (i quote because i happen to agree with foxylady, that perhaps she was just trying to give some relevance to her query) to someone you seem to think is undeserving of being in the same category as you because they don't have a degree seems a little arrogant.
 

Meisje

Well-known member
There are two options here.

Either she is racist and was being passive-aggressive... or she's really inexperienced with ethnic diversity and is horribly clumsy discussing it.
 

hickle

Well-known member
Unskilled labor: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/unskilled+labor
–noun
1. work that requires practically no training or experience for itsadequate or competent performance.

By this definition, a baby-sitter is an unskilled laborer. I'm not making any judgments about baby-sitting other than it is an "unskilled labor" position. I acknowledge that a baby-sitter could have a post-secondary degree. The odds that a baby-sitter has a master's degree are much less likely, however, because that person would be over-qualified and most likely under-paid.

In a social setting, I agree that all people are equal. It doesn't matter how much money you make or what your educational background is. I don't like it when people cop attitudes like that towards me, so I wouldn't want to cop an attitude like that towards others.

In a professional setting, however, your educational background does matter. We were at work when she is telling me I remind her of her baby-sitters because I might be Brazilian. I think anyone in my position would have been equally offended, had it been a Chinese person who reminded her of her laundromat owner, or an Indian person who reminded her of her cab driver. In a work environment her comparing me to someone who doesn't have a degree is offensive because it's not respecting the fact that I have an advanced degree. I'm sorry if you find that offensive, but yes, having a degree matters at work.

I have nothing against Brazilians or baby-sitters, but I don't want to be compared to either of them because I'm not, and I know coming from this lady that neither of those things is a compliment.
 

kimmy

Well-known member
again, you can defend your words all day and back them with whatever definitions you please. it does not change the fact that perception is everything. i think it's rude to take offense to being compared to someone who does a different job than you just because it doesn't require a four year degree. my job doesn't. my dad's job doesn't. my mom's job doesn't. i'd like to see a four year degree give you what you need to do any of our jobs...oh wait, it can't.

everything in a situation like this is based on perception. i could let it bother me that i find your posts offensive, but does it really need to? no. because i know you probably don't mean them that way, most people don't just spout things off to offend others. everyone's got something that makes them tick. apparently, her comment to you touched on one of those nerves.

like hergreyness said, life is too short to get up in arms about every mispercieved comment.
 

k.a.t

Well-known member
Am I the only one? I don't see anything wrong at all with the comment....she though your name sounded brazillian...and she commented some of her babysitters are brazillian...she was making conversation, I don't see how any of what she said translates to either looking down on brazilian people or being racist.....

and before anyone says anything I'm south american myself.
 

User38

Well-known member
another South American !

I don't pay attention to the comments either.. as one can never know what is really in someone's heart/brain -- so I usually ignore all comments which I don't care to understand.
 

k.a.t

Well-known member
Yep! 100% and apparently I don't look south american either
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must be my very pale skin and almost Asian features lol
 

shellygrrl

Moderator
Staff member
[quote name="k.a.t" url="/forum/thread/174626/subtle-racism#post_2120299"] Am I the only one? I don't see anything wrong at all with the comment....she though your name sounded brazillian...and she commented some of her babysitters are brazillian...she was making conversation, I don't see how any of what she said translates to either looking down on brazilian people or being racist.....
[/quote] I have to agree with this. She wasn't being racist. Also: Mexican is not a race. Brazilian is not a race. They're nationalities. Hispanic is a race. If you're (the OP, that is) going to accuse her of anything, it would be xenophobia (extreme fear of anything foreign or strange), and even then that would be a stretch, IMO. I'm pointing this out because I think the difference between racism and xenophobia has been lost in recent times.
 

thestarsfall

Well-known member
I also don't see the comment as racist, or derogatory in any legit way. I would've taken it to be that maybe her Brazilian babysitters have taught her some Brazilian names and thus she thought your name was Brazilian.

I also think that in our politically correct age people often find racism and prejudice in things that totally are innocent. People are quick to jump to playing the race card on things that just totally aren't really about race.

And yeah, Brazilian isn't a race...
 

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