The war in Iraq (split from WHO is Jesus?)

[Lalli]

Quote:

Originally Posted by youbeabitch Why because we called you out on not being able to think for yourself? Or because you are upset that the "ex soldier" has the ability to look in a situation by herself and form her own opinion and have the ability to form it and defend it? And as for bretherens being the scum of the earth-let me gently remind you some of yours who like to blow up innocent women, children and other people they too are the scum of the earth.

get your facts right. i said earlier i dont see these scum as muslim i have no sympathy for them whatsoever so they are NOT my brethrens, they choose to blow up people i DONT. they choose violence I DONT. and again your just making assumptions "some of yours" thats like me saying all christians are bible bashers and most stupidest people on earth. let me gently remind you also, me sayin shes an ex soldier dont mean its an insult, depends how you read it. its ok for you to repeatdly make assumptions and you're quick to point out and say my lot are so and so, maybe you need to read into Islam and see how it encourages to refrain from violence and cold blooded murder. those who ignore that are not muslims

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parishoon lots spoke against that genoicide, but as it wasn't important at the time, it didn't get covered. Iranians were supposed to have right of passage to Karbala (a holy site for Shi'ites) & some would be plucked outta the caravans. Their voices silenced over time as they realized that no one could/would help them, & it's better to suffer in silence than speak out and make your whole family & anyone you've ever come in contact w/ a target. Power through fear. A lot of these stories are only coming out now as his secret police & such are being brought to justice, his sons are dead, and he's in prison, so they are no longer afraid to speak out. I'm not sure what you mean by going to bat for them? Do you mean taking care of him themselves? Unfortunately, those countries have a lot to worry about with their own internal politics/trouble makers/problems/disappeared ppl to have come together to do something about him.

going to bat=standing in an saying "this is wrong, you can't do that..." is what I meant.
Thank you for the info.

 

[Hawkeye]

someone needs to point her to snopes.com
lol

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lalli get your facts right. i said earlier i dont see these scum as muslim i have no sympathy for them whatsoever so they are NOT my brethrens, they choose to blow up people i DONT. they choose violence I DONT. and again your just making assumptions "some of yours" thats like me saying all christians are bible bashers and most stupidest people on earth. let me gently remind you also, me sayin shes an ex soldier dont mean its an insult, depends how you read it. its ok for you to repeatdly make assumptions and you're quick to point out and say my lot are so and so, maybe you need to read into Islam and see how it encourages to refrain from violence and cold blooded murder. those who ignore that are not muslims

Perhaps you need to study your religion further in order to see how it does encourage violence against those who do not share your beliefs.

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lalli so why does america use cheap PR and make films such as United 93 despite the fact there was no flight 93.. and try to highlight something which hasnt even taken place.

answer:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anonymous "well there are 40 people that would probably argue that point but they are DEAD but I'm sure their families would argue that point. OR you could travel to Pennsylvania and have a look at the crater in the ground. However; we're losing focus on the point, or more appropriately YOU are, which is another byproduct of lack of actual life experienece, an un or ill informed view, and a position that is weak because it is incorrect. I'd like to quote something I read once prior to moving forward 'the true mark of intellectual honesty is not only the respect of but solicitation of opposing points of view'. This means to me that when you don't agree with someone or something you FIRST try to see things from their point of view, investigate their sources of information, and attempt to understand if not agree with them. That said I've listened to the conspiracy theorists and I've done my own investigations into 9/11 and I am comfortable that the facts as presented regarding the planes that crashed and the victims on them were real and they crashed under the circumstance widely reported in the following months. Not to denegrate you in any way but, considering I built fighter jets for 13 years, I'm pretty sure I know a few things more about aircraft and what happens when they impact the ground or a solid object at high speed than you or the average person does. Now let's get back to the point of the original discussion that you think everybody should get out of Iraq and let them deal with it. Again I am going to point out that the people or people of like mind and some association that caused those planes to crash, the chemical attack in the London subway, the bombings in madrid, the bombing of the US Cole, that threaten US citizens every day with the potential for being victims of nuclear, biological, or conventional terrorism, are in Iraq vying for power over the region and a safe haven in which they can plan future and more devestating attacks against anybody they see as an infedel. These are not men of peace dear. These are men that believe that everybody that does not profess the same faith as them should be killed and they have no compunction about how they achieve that aim. It would be irresponsible for the nations of the free world to NOT maintain a presence there and, at the very least, keep the terrorists off balance WHEREVER they are. Something to think about young lady. These people do not care that you share a religion with them. If you're on a train, bus, in a restaraunt, that they manage to get a bomb or a chemical device, into you'll be just as dead or maimed as the 'infedels'. Now you may not care about your life but I damn sure care about mine and the lives of people that I love and protect. Do I WANT our soldiers to be there and in danger? NO. Do I WANT innocent people to die regardless of nationality? NO. Do I WANT everybody who threatens the innocent and will kill thousands to make a political point in the name of religion dead? Oh yes. Dead as a mackeral as we say around here. Frankly I wouldn't mind killing a few of them myself to make my own point. I mean really wouldn't I be doing the them a favor sending them of to their 72 virgins? No wonder so many of them are willing to strap on a Dupont suit and turn into a not too smart bomb. So as I stated in my previous. Muslims that profess to deplore war and violence need to start working HARD within their own religion to moderate the hatred of the extremists and help the rest of the world find and eradicate them. In my opinion failure to act against it ESPECIALLY in your own religion quietly endorses either said behavior, expresses personal indifference (in which case your opinions stated prior to this post and past are merely the vapid blabberings of a self indulgant individual), or cowardice. This is the last amount of time I'm going to waste on this discussion. However I'm going to leave you with a bit of advice before I go. Do your own research in the future and make up your own mind. Do not just take on the opinion of people who tell you that the emporers new robes are nice. Respect that people have a differing point of view from you and, from what I see in this thread, it's based a whole lot more on life experience than religious emnity. And if you REALLY want to change the world get off of the internet, get out among the people, and DO something about it rather than bemoaning the fact that you don't like it. Good luck"

 

[Hawkeye]

Exactly. Studying your religion, even the fundamentalism is very key to any growing person despire their religion.

And Shimma is right you know-it is in Q'uaran

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by youbeabitch someone needs to point her to snopes.com lol

Indeed.

 

[Dizzy]

Here, I'll even take some of the research out for you.

http://nowscape.com/islam/koran_sura.htm

http://nowscape.com/islam/islam.htm

 

[Shimmer]

link 1
link2
link3
link4
link5
link6

 

[NtheSticks]

Lalli, I'd say you need to get involved with something that will get your hands dirty, and provide a physical labor learning experience.

You have several times commented about people - shimmer, Dizzy, to name two - being rude, yet your manners are appalling in their lack. Hopefully, you would exercise better manners in person, but I wouldn't be one to count on it. You are extremely rude, and narrow-minded. Your quick calling people that shows that to be true. You also commented in an earlier posting that your syntax and such do not reflect your mental abilities. Kid, if you want to be treated as an adult, carry yourself as one. Proper diction does matter. Since this is typing, proper spelling and at least an acknowledgement of grammatical construction would help you be taken seriously. Your thought process doesn't help you, because I haven't seen one from you.

The USofA is a great country. That is a fact. You might not like it, but it is a fact. You don't even have to think it's all that great. Fine. Just remember that I don't know of any other country that has a system working as long as ours has that allows an individual to succeed at whatever they choose to try. Yes, individuals fail, and the successful ones get up and go again.

Military - great persons, every one I know. Whether retired or currently active or even currently reservist, the good guys outnumber the jerks. I know a lot of them. In fact, the number of former military persons I interact with on a daily basis continues to surprise me. Are they all angels? not hardly. I respect them.

Respect is something I think you need to think about. More importantly, you need to practice it should you hope to receive it.

I don't see your 'seeking the truth' as being a legitimate goal. Nor do I see you truly seeking opposing views.

You wade off into things w/o a whole lot of thought of the consequences of you shooting off your mouth. guess what? when you say things that aren't real bright and want to pass it as wisdom, don't be shocked when someone calls the mushroom food what it is - and you have shoveled a LOT of it here.

You get to reside in a truly great country yourself....Thank your god that you can speak as freely as you do. Thank your god that you can pretty muchly go about your business without worrying that the car you're going to pass might be a bomb. Thank your god that you can walk the streets of your country and know that criminals are the only thing you need fear, not your government.

AND GROW UP and be grateful that you have a chance to grow up, unlike many kids in the middle east.

You've stated you're muslim. I can respect your choice. But see, it seems people of your faith aren't willing to allow others to be different faith.

 

[Hawkeye]

ANd the sad part is she is exemplifying this ideology that she is trying to convince us that not all muslims are apart of it.

 

[Shimmer]

I have zero problems with opposing viewpoints that are presented well, and thoughtfully and articulately. It's when it degenerates into the childish BS that it gets amusing at best.

 

[Hawkeye]

ITA. I gotta admit some of these responses have had me in stiches.

Seriously thank God im not a teacher or I would be spending the entire day laughing hysterically at my students.

 

[Shimmer]

Indeed.

Regurgitation of fed information isn't helpful to winning any type of debate...or even underlining an otherwise valuable point.

 

[Hawkeye]

Hey Shimmer, I've been meaning to ask you (and poor Janice or Holstrom or Juneplum may be moving this-if so sorry!) but we have a lot of similar points of view.

How do you feel about the federal government with the education process in the US? I know I for one find it very laughable and I'm all for privitization of public schools. What do you think?

 

[Shimmer]

I think every one has a right to an education, regardless of race, color, or creed.
I don't however believe in teaching to the lowest common denominator. Instead of teaching 'down' we should be working to bring those behind 'up' so to speak.
Now, if that's done on a national level, or on a private level, I don't care. As long as it's done.

 

[Hawkeye]

ITA

Do you ever also begin to think that the educational process in the US (and again I'm not trying to corner you-this is more of a friendly chatter if you will!) hehe!

is very biased to certain political parties and the beginning of the loss of the individual right to think for themselves? I've noticed a lot of this going on in my area and it really infuriates me.

It's amazing how they can show us the cowboy and indian story but make the indians bad not telling of the actual horrors that actually happened (like the smallpox and what really happened on the first thanksgiving).

I also wonder if this lovey dovey stuff being taught in our schools has been really beneficial. Im kind of unnerved because Im seeing that our schools are teaching as little as they can to get by and we do have so many students who truely are ignorant.

 

[Shimmer]

I believe that the teachers have a very difficult job, in that they are really really restricted on what they can do and how they can do it...yet they have really high standards of performance.
I believe that the fundamentals of reading, writing (coherently), and mathematics need to be taught, along with the fundamental (and preferably unbiased) history of our nation and the world.
Teaching these subjects would teach children how to think and answer questions, but I'm afraid that given standardization, that isn't likely.

 

[Hawkeye]

Shimma, I love you LOL
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks these things because I've been beginning to think that people they just dont care anymore about the truth of things.
Thank you!

 

[NtheSticks]

someone posted earlier that America is in a catch-22. damned if we do and damned if we don't, take action.

When crap happens in the world - tsunami or earthquake - or a man-made disaster as far as that goes, Americans are among the first, if not the first, to wade in to help those that have been harmed.

the citizens give - time, money, prayers, goods - to help alleviate in whatever manner able.

Now someone else, and I believe it was Lalli, mentioned the hurricanes that hit the Gulf Coast - particularly New Orleans and Houston areas - last year. It was pointed out that the FED gov - by our laws - is not allowed to act until asked to by the STATE gov. It didn't happen in New Orleans in a timely manner.
HOWEVER - hurricanes are tracked before they become hurricanes. from the moment they have a hint of forming, they're being watched. Where they're going isn't unknown. How fast they move isn't unknown. Unlike a tornado, dear. Those things have FASTER winds, LESS warning, and.....just because a storm has the potential to spawn a tornado, doesn't mean it will. So get over the comparison. Both are bad. the old 'apple to orange' comparison - both are fruit.

now my humble opinion is this - it's MY job to take care of MY person, and those who depend on me. That means, if I live in a hurricane prone area (ANYWHERE along the coast, kiddo) I need to a-have a game plan to leave, b-have supplies for an emergency if I'm not able to get out and might not take the direct hit - see plan a because if I need to leave, then I need to leave. and c-care for my property in case of a hit. The idea that someone is going to take care of me is ridiculous. It is also childish and immature. I am an adult. I take care of my business. That means packing my bag and getting out of town. Not 'help me someone, I'm too lazy to move' or if I don't have a car, God gave me two feet, use that school bus to move someone who needs oxygen to get by.

actions have consequences. LACK of action also has consequences. let me put it plain and simple - if you step up to me and tell my you want to kick my fanny, you might get 'the look' but if you step up to me, don't say a word, and draw back your fist - you get cold-cocked.