US woman translates feminist Koran

macslut

Well-known member
Here is something for everyone to chew on for a bit. Closer to the bottom of the article, the critisms are listed. Hmmmmm...

NEW YORK: A new English-language interpretation of the Muslim Holy book the Koran challenges the use of words that feminists say have been used to justify the abuse of Islamic women.



The new version, translated by an Iranian-American, will be published in April and comes after Muslim feminists from around the world gathered in New York last November and vowed to create the first women's council to interpret the Koran and make the religion more friendly toward women.

In the new book, Dr Laleh Bakhtiar, a former lecturer on Islam at the University of Chicago, challenges the translation of the Arab word "idrib," traditionally translated as "beat," which feminists say has been used to justify abuse of women.

"Why choose to interpret the word as 'to beat' when it can also mean 'to go away'," she writes in the introduction to the new book.
The passage is generally translated: "And as for those women whose illwill you have reason to fear, admonish them ; then leave them alone in bed; then beat them; and if thereupon they pay you heed, do not seek to harm them. Behold, God is indeed most high, great!"

Instead, Bakhtiar suggests "Husbands at that point should submit to God, let God handle it – go away from them and let God work His Will instead of a human being inflicting pain and suffering on another human being in the Name of God."

Some Muslims said the new interpretation strayed from the original. Omar Abu-Namous, imam at the New York Islamic Cultural Centre Mosque, questioned Bakhtiar's interpretation.

"There is nothing to stop a woman from translating the Holy Koran.
The translator should have good command of the Arabic language in order to convey it and translate it into other languages. I don't know if Dr Laleh Bakhtiar has good command of Arabic," Imam Abu-Namous said.

"Maybe she is depending on other translations, not on the original," he said.

Bakhtiar defended her work, telling Reuters she translated from the Arabic text and that she "reads and knows classical Arabic."

The New York imam also said the passage she is challenging speaks of when a woman wants a divorce, and only allows a man to "hit his wife, according to the Prophet, with a 'miswak,"' or a twig of a pencil's length, on her hand.

Arabic Language Professor at the American University in Cairo Siham Serry said her interpretation of the word "idrib," was "to push away," similar but slightly different from Bakhtiar's "to go away."

She said she agrees with the imam that 'miswak' means twig and that the Koran does not encourage the harm of women. But she also said that men can interpret that passage to justify their own behaviour.

"How can you hurt someone by hitting her with a very small, short and weak thing?" she asked by telephone from Cairo. "But sometimes the interpretation of the Koran is according to men, and sometimes they try to humiliate the woman."

Bakhtiar writes in the book that she found a lack of internal consistency in previous English translations, and found little attention given to the woman's point of view.

In other changes to the text, she cites the most accurate translation of the word traditionally translated to mean "infidel" as "ungrateful."

And she uses "God" instead of "Allah," saying that God is the universal English term.

Bakhtiar has been schooled in Sufism which includes both the Shia and Sunni points of view. As an adult, she lived nine years in a Shia community in Iran and has lived in a Sunni community in Chicago for the past 15 years.

"While I understand the positions of each group, I do not represent any specific one as I find living in America makes it difficult enough to be a Muslim, much less to choose to follow one sect or another," she writes.
The new text is published by Islamic speciality bookseller Kazi Publications, which has a store in Chicago and online.

My thoughts: I admire her but there are those out there who are going to be demanding her head. I hope she is practical and keeps herself safe.
 

geeko

Well-known member
thanks for sharing this article.

I also pray for the safety of this lady.... as i foresee that her book is going to offend many conservatives who view women as inferior to men.
 

Beauty Mark

Well-known member
That's what I'm normally talking about when it comes to translations and interpretation.

I'm very glad she's doing it and admire her for it, but I fear for her.
 

Hawkeye

Well-known member
Brave- insanely brave- I'm proud of her.
greengrin.gif
Takes guts to do that
greengrin.gif
 

GalleyGirl

Well-known member
Good for her :) I think that she lives in the US has afforded her to do this, can you imagine trying to publish something like this in one of the uber-conservative countries in the mid-east?
 

Beauty Mark

Well-known member
She's definitely safer doing that here in the US than in a much more conservative and strict Islam area, but I imagine there are pockets of conservative Muslims here.
 

macslut

Well-known member
I think getting it out in the public is giving her some protection. But remember, they believe their religion over our laws. Honor killings still happen...and in the USA.
 

kaliraksha

Well-known member
This situation reminds me of Theo van Gogh.

From Wikipedia-

"Working from a script written by Ayaan Hirsi Ali, van Gogh created the 10-minute movie Submission. The movie deals with the topic of violence against women in Islamic societies; telling the stories of four abused Muslim women. The title itself, "Submission", is the translation of the word "Islam" into English. In the film, women's naked bodies are veiled with semi-transparent shrouds as they kneel in prayer, telling their stories as if they are speaking to Allah. Qur'anic verses unfavourable to women are projected onto their bodies in Arabic. After the movie was released in 2004, both van Gogh and Hirsi Ali received death threats. Van Gogh did not take these very seriously and refused any protection, reportedly telling Ayaan Hirsi Ali: "Who would want to kill the village idiot?"



Mohammed Bouyeri assassinated van Gogh in the early morning of Tuesday November 2, 2004, in Amsterdam, in front of the Amsterdam East borough office (stadsdeelkantoor) on the corner of the Linnaeusstraat and Tweede Oosterparkstraat, while he was bicycling to work. He shot him eight times with an HS 2000 (a handgun produced in 2000 in Croatia), and Van Gogh died on the spot. Bouyeri then cut van Gogh's throat, nearly decapitating him, and stabbed him in the chest. Two knives were left implanted in his torso, one attaching a five-page note to his body. The note (Text) threatened Western governments, Jews and Ayaan Hirsi Ali (who went into hiding). The note also contained references to the ideologies of the Egyptian organization Takfir wal-Hijra."
 

Dark_Phoenix

Well-known member
For some reason I'm thinking of when King James translated the Bible into English... he skewed it's meaning to suit his own ends (I'm no Bible scholar but wasn't "Thou shalt not suffer a poisoner to live" changed to "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live"? Well, if I'm right, it justified the persecution of witches and heathens).

Whether this woman's intentions are good or not, I don't think you should translate a holy text that people put so much faith into just so it agrees with your beliefs. She isn't exactly translating it because a certain group couldn't read it (like the first translation of the Bible from Latin to German). It's so it sounds more femenist.

I just hope this is taken the same way all the misc. translations of the holy text are: they're interpretations and translations. You can only know the truth behind a text if you read the original.

Er, and just to clarify one thing: A Fatwa deals with religious issues that are unclear and need to be decided by an Islamic scholar.
I think it's associated with Ayatollah Khomeini sentancing Salman Rushdie to death for publishing "The Satanic Verses". The book was a poor interpretation of the life of the Prophet and sparked outrage. I think I understand why Islamic officials would be angered by it's publishing (books and movies are banned often in the Middle East. Even in liberal countries.) Anyways, Fatwas don't always deal with death sentancing.
 

Beauty Mark

Well-known member
All holy books should be taken with a grain of salt, IMO, not only because every single person who translates has different ways of doing, either intentionally or not, but also who knows what has edited out in the original and whether the intention is figurative or literal.
 

lipstickandhate

Well-known member
Ayaan Hirsi Ali-- what they tried to do to her because of her political views is criminal. I saw her speak at Harvard and she is a brave, amazing and intelligent woman. Submission was one of the best movies I've ever seen. I recently finished The Caged Virgin- read it if you are at all interested in the feminism v. Islam/ feminism v. multiculturalism debate.
 

lipstickandhate

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emma_Frost

I just hope this is taken the same way all the misc. translations of the holy text are: they're interpretations and translations. You can only know the truth behind a text if you read the original.

Er, and just to clarify one thing: A Fatwa deals with religious issues that are unclear and need to be decided by an Islamic scholar.
I think it's associated with Ayatollah Khomeini sentancing Salman Rushdie to death for publishing "The Satanic Verses". The book was a poor interpretation of the life of the Prophet and sparked outrage. I think I understand why Islamic officials would be angered by it's publishing (books and movies are banned often in the Middle East. Even in liberal countries.) Anyways, Fatwas don't always deal with death sentancing.


Fatwas are disturbing and should scare the hell out of everyone. They are irrational, dictatorial and archaic, and they have no place in the modern world whatsoever.

Also, it is frightening you actually just said "the book was a poor interpretation of the life of the Prophet"... it was fiction.
 

Dark_Phoenix

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by lipstickandhate
Fatwas are disturbing and should scare the hell out of everyone. They are irrational, dictatorial and archaic, and they have no place in the modern world whatsoever.

Also, it is frightening you actually just said "the book was a poor interpretation of the life of the Prophet"... it was fiction.


Okay, how can a boycott of Isreali goods be disturbing and scary? That's an example of a fatwa. I don't think they are archaic, they can be compared to the Pope being against birth control. He's issuing a judgement on a religiously controversial issue.

About the Satanic Verses: The author claimed his book was backed up by research. And I know it's fiction, I only said that because it was inspired by his life (like how The Da Vinci Code is fiction, inspired but not true). I'm hoping to drop the subject of the novel there.
 

lipstickandhate

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emma_Frost
Okay, how can a boycott of Isreali goods be disturbing and scary? That's an example of a fatwa. I don't think they are archaic, they can be compared to the Pope being against birth control. He's issuing a judgement on a religiously controversial issue.

About the Satanic Verses: The author claimed his book was backed up by research. And I know it's fiction, I only said that because it was inspired by his life (like how The Da Vinci Code is fiction, inspired but not true). I'm hoping to drop the subject of the novel there.


I personally feel the Pope--- at least the current one--is pretty premodern too... I'm well aware of examples of fatwas, I worked for an NGO in Jordan when I graduated. Unfortunately, you've chosen a relatively benign example of a fatwa to make your point that they are harmless and culturally-acceptable. I think you know this and I'll leave it at that. Fatwas do not encourage democracy or independent thought and are all too frequently used against both.


ps. I personally cannot understand how anyone was offended by that book. It was horrible! I had to will myself to finish it.
 

faifai

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by lipstickandhate
Ayaan Hirsi Ali-- what they tried to do to her because of her political views is criminal. I saw her speak at Harvard and she is a brave, amazing and intelligent woman. Submission was one of the best movies I've ever seen. I recently finished The Caged Virgin- read it if you are at all interested in the feminism v. Islam/ feminism v. multiculturalism debate.

She's like the Ann Coulter of the Dutch. Sometimes she's right on, but frequently, things she presents as "facts" are completely inflammatory and are often flat out wrong. You have to realize she is merely someone with an opinion. What happened to her in her personal life was terrible, but that's no reason to go out and spread misinformation. In terms of religion and politics she is as much a militant leftist as the militant right that she criticizes. It's hard to get an accurate picture of something if all you have to go off of are the Michael Moores and Ann Coulters of the world.
 

lipstickandhate

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by faifai
She's like the Ann Coulter of the Dutch. Sometimes she's right on, but frequently, things she presents as "facts" are completely inflammatory and are often flat out wrong. You have to realize she is merely someone with an opinion. What happened to her in her personal life was terrible, but that's no reason to go out and spread misinformation. In terms of religion and politics she is as much a militant leftist as the militant right that she criticizes. It's hard to get an accurate picture of something if all you have to go off of are the Michael Moores and Ann Coulters of the world.

I respectfully disagree
smiles.gif
I think she's brilliant.
 

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