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boujoischic

New member
Quote:Originally Posted by boujoischic


I wasn't being negative I was saying other members read through the threads because we enjoy them. Reading the threads responding and participating is what brings is closer as members but were being told people are cliquey? She saying she doesn't want to and feels upset if someone doesn't catch her up. I have helped other members and I'm well aware I don't have to but if you don't wanna read the threads why join.


Spoonfeeding someone applies that they are acting like a baby about something, if I'm incorrect please let me know. I'm quite sure she is an adult woman and that comment is negative. If I am wrong let me know and please show me where that was positive and helpful by telling someone they need information spoonfeed to them because you feel they are too lazy to read 100+ pages.
I'm not gonna go back and forth about it. You can chose to feel however you like about the way I chose to word my response. I'm done with it though.
 

ARmakeupjunkie

Active member
I wasn't being negative I was saying other members read through the threads because we enjoy them. Reading the threads responding and participating is what brings is closer as members but were being told people are cliquey? She saying she doesn't want to and feels upset if someone doesn't catch her up. I have helped other members and I'm well aware I don't have to but if you don't wanna read the threads why join.
I never said I was upset because someone didn't catch me up. I don't ask, and look for answers myself, if there is something I need to know. I just don't understand why some members get so upset when others ask questions.
 

AkeshialuvsMAC

New member
I can understand what @boujoischic is saying sometimes instead of asking to be caught up alot of info is usually on the 1st post which gets updated people never ever go bac there idk why! I get that u may not want to read 20pages or more that u missed but u have to expect that this can b annoying. How do u expect people to get to kno u if u dont contribute comment and read? Maybe for lack of a better wrd she said spoon feeding but u can't expect every single question to b answered especially if it is accessible if u just participate. But people who just pop on to find something and thats it often have this problem. Everyone needs to b considerate of others time and participation
 

MissTT

New member
From what I understand, the main value of the premium chat will be for people who don't wish to post the information "publicly." Instead, they can post it in the premium section where select people (not ones they've picked, like with a pm, but ones who have paid for the membership) can see it, and the rest of us can just go on posting like normal, sharing any information and swatches we have. Is this correct? If so, sounds fair to me. I've mostly moved on from MAC, because I get tired of the hype. I think that nobody should be forced to share their "insider info" with the general public, but I agree that using Specktra to create a PM network where only certain people share information goes against the mission of Specktra.
Not directed at you, purplemaren, but continuing a conversation open to anyone's response. What happens when a member of Premium shares information in general chat? How will that person be treated by other Premium members who likely feel the info should remain there - especially when they've paid for the privilege? Based on what I've seen lately that action would not be received well.

Argh, I have so much more to say and keep deleting it for various reasons. I will just say that I contribute much less in the threads that demand secret codes and PMs for info. It's exclusionary in its very nature no matter the intent and does not create a welcoming environment.
 

misfitted

New member
I think what she meant was pretty clear, however the way that it was worded may have insinuated that the person she directed the comment to wants to be "spoonfed" information as opposed to finding it for themselves. And nowhere did that person say they wanted to just be handed information outright. They said that sometimes they don't feel like catching up on a bunch of pages. And so what? Any person has the right to read through all of the updates or not. Hell, when I see 1000+ posts that I've missed there's now way I'm going to read through all of that. And if I decide to ask a question I can. And if someone wants to answer my question they can. Maybe what was said was said because the post was misunderstood, maybe it was said out of frustration, but whatever the reason, if you're going to throw something out there, take note to how it may be interpreted before you say it. At the end of the day, ADMIN has made the decision on how MAC Chat will be managed on this site. Take it or leave it.
 

AkeshialuvsMAC

New member
Not directed at you, purplemaren, but continuing a conversation open to anyone's response. What happens when a member of Premium shares information in general chat? How will that person be treated by other Premium members who likely feel the info should remain there - especially when they've paid for the privilege? Based on what I've seen lately that action would not be received well. Argh, I have so much more to say and keep deleting it for various reasons. I will just say that I contribute much less in the threads that demand secret codes and PMs for info. It's exclusionary in its very nature no matter the intent and does not create a welcoming environment.
nothing will happen apparently. Its no way to monitor the info showin up in both threads so does it even make sense to pay when u can get it for free? Unless all the people that get the "scoop" is goin to premium lol idk smh
 

misfitted

New member
Quote:Originally Posted by MissTT

Not directed at you, purplemaren, but continuing a conversation open to anyone's response. What happens when a member of Premium shares information in general chat? How will that person be treated by other Premium members who likely feel the info should remain there - especially when they've paid for the privilege? Based on what I've seen lately that action would not be received well.
 
Argh, I have so much more to say and keep deleting it for various reasons. I will just say that I contribute much less in the threads that demand secret codes and PMs for info. It's exclusionary in its very nature no matter the intent and does not create a welcoming environment.



BINGO. THIS is what I am curious to see. Like Janice said, making MAC Chat premium only provides members the option to post information they want to post in a private environment, it does not stop them from sharing information across the premium chat versus the free chat. So if info leaches out to the free chat, it is what it is, if it does not, those members not willing to pay for the premium membership will have to find other means for information. AND THERE ARE PLENTY! I for one, found out about Specktra through other makeup and beauty blogs. So it's not like folks only contributing to the free chat will not be able to get early release info at all. I mean that's what I feel this hoopla is REALLY about... People are feeling excluded from RELEASE INFORMATION. It's not as much about maintaining the pleasant atmosphere of the community for a lot of folks. I can understand both sides though.
 

pinkpaint

New member
So you're saying you don't want to have to read the threads like everyone else you feel entitled to be spoon fed information? Good luck with that.
This is the attitude that persists here and it's exactly what I'm not feeling. This whole, "Oh, you're not doing the work, you're not reading enough posts, you're not stalking the sites at 4am, you don't have a large enough post count, you don't follow our "rules" and so you don't deserve our information, atmosphere.

Obviously, I'm not supplying early information and swatches. There are only about 4-5 people here who do. The rest of us rely on them. But I try to be friendly and help people when I can. I give people a heads up if I see a product that they want has been restocked or what store might have them. One afternoon I called at least 20 stores trying to find a lipstick for a friend here. I don't have a huge post count but I think I contribute in my own way. And lately, some of the new members are the friendliest people here. I don't think anyone needs to prove themselves to us. How about we don't assume the worst about every person that joins the site? And, even if they do join the site on the day of the launch, most of them are just like us. They love makeup and want to be able to get their products, too. I don't know, maybe I don't get it...

The internet does not lend itself to secretiveness. I mean, there will still be people who are premium members who will post collection info, swatches, and launches on their blogs and instagrams. It will happen. So while I appreciate the thought, I don't think there is really a solution. I just wish that this didn't become the topic of discussion every other day...
 

Medgal07

New member
I supported a suggestion that PM’ing for SPECIFIC REQUESTS might be a manner in which Specktra members could be facilitated in getting, for example, restocked limited edition items before resellers could poach that info. PM’ing was NEVER intended to be exclusionary and the tone, tenor and intent have been grossly misstated. Rather, the intent was to protect information for the innocent—those who worked and couldn’t have access to information quickly enough to get limited edition items, for example. How that was taken out of context when so many others here echoed that they understood what it was all about I’ll never know. The idea was, if someone says I’m looking for X, if you know where they could find X you let that person know. How that translates to an exclusive club is beyond me. I'm not talking about public readily available or widespread product information here. In the context in which I made my original suggestion, there would be a request by a specific person, and a response in kind, via PM. I think this worked for many until someone suggested this was a club or exclusive sorority. That was not the intent and I don’t have any idea how that conclusion was made or how this got lumped into newbie vs veteran and code/no code which is totally unrelated to what PM in this context was about.
I have gained access to several products (non-MAC because that's what I was seeking) over the past two days that would have taken an exorbitant amount of time or an act of God for me to locate without some assistance. Because I made my wishes known, individuals who don’t know me from hunger reached out and pointed me in the right direction. They did so via PM. Is that a crime? I think not. They did so because I made a specific request and to allow me to gain access to the product before a lurking reseller, who would then seek to sell it to me for three times more than RTC.
Lastly, I’ve PM'd to reach out to newbies to say hey—if you need anything or have questions that you’re uncomfortable asking publicly, feel free to PM me. I’ve also followed up to see if they were getting everything they needed. Why did I resort to a PM? Because I know what it is to be new and feel awkward about asking a question that you think others might misjudge you for asking. I’m not saying that’s the case, but I’ve seen people preface a question in a manner that suggests that they think it’s less than an intelligent one. It pains me to hear people say they’re not included. Jump in----—get away from the wall DEAR FLOWERs and just DANCE. I did. That said, I would wholeheartedly support a system in which a seasoned member/veteran partners with a newbie to answer questions or just reach out to support them through their ’newness’ or that awkward feeling that we’ve all probably experienced. For all the complaints about being newbies and what has become an us and them culture, I have to think there is just as much gratitude because I see people reaching out on a daily basis.
 

highheels

New member
Medgal, the issue isn't about PMing in general - read Janice's original post. The issue was about the 'code' or 'system' in relation to MAC launches and how not everyone was in the know, specifically newbies or infrequent posters, because someone (or group) decided those people couldn't be trusted - but based on what criteria? Simply being a newbie? On top of that, anyone who publicly spoke about the 'code' was vilified for doing so, all of which created the impression that unless you were part of the mysterious 'club' or possessed some other unknown attribute, you were not permitted to know this top-secret information and shouldn't make the mistake of asking in the forum no less! Well, it's pretty hard to abide by a system about which you have been given little or no information. Anyone who asked publicly likely did so without realizing that others had already decided it was a hush-hush topic and were therefore criticized for it; but how were they to know it was a secret in the first place?? This is what we're saying. By the time you PM'd another member to ask what the code system was, it was too late. PMing has its place obviously - like the example you gave above for hard-to-fine items - that's great, and no one is disputing that; it has nothing to do with censorship or secrecy; that's your private business. But no one should be criticized for posting in a public forum dedicated to the topic about which they are posting; imposing secrecy or censoring information in a public forum is ridiculous and not in the spirit of Specktra.
 

Ajigglin

New member
Wow. I am really going to miss the way things were. I stalk the mac site and specktra at the same time when there's something new coming out. If mac chat is going to be a ghost town due to all the chat being taken to premium, I guess I'm going to have to look for some ladies' twitter accounts that might tweet out the info. When the "system" started I asked for the PM and got one even though I'm relatively new. It wasn't exclusionary.
+1. The PM thing is being blown waaaaaay out of proportion. I am a newbie and I was given the info as soon as I asked. I personally will not pay for the membership. I'm glad that people can still post swatches, etc in the free area, so thanks for that clarification. I responded to the poll and voted that we conduct this the way we do the Clearance Bin. Last I checked, it had the most votes. Why wasn't that chosen as a solution?
 

Richelle83

New member
Well, it's pretty hard to abide by a system about which you have been given little or no information. Anyone who asked publicly likely did so without realizing that others had already decided it was a hush-hush topic and were therefore criticized for it; but how were they to know it was a secret in the first place?? This is what we're saying. By the time you PM'd another member to ask what the code system was, it was too late. PMing has its place obviously - like the example you gave above for hard-to-fine items - that's great, and no one is disputing that; it has nothing to do with censorship or secrecy; that's your private business. But no one should be criticized for posting in a public forum dedicated to the topic about which they are posting; imposing secrecy or censoring information in a public forum is ridiculous and not in the spirit of Specktra.
Sorry but NO. The whole point of the code system AND pm'ng people was to keep the restock information in house.

A member PM'd me about a system. I intern mulled it over and decided ON MY OWN to send this information to people as I saw them post or as I had time to, this was to see if we needed to tweak the idea or figure something else out. There are THOUSANDS of people on here and hundreds who post at any given time. Some people just don't seem to understand that this wasn't an exclusive club, no one had to be a long time member. THERE WAS NO CRITERIA. I missed tons of people, some new, some long term members. Right before Rihanna's Fall collection came out for the dept stores the word was spread by me and several other members to anyone who asked, many just went ahead and pm'd me and others. When people felt they had missed out they didn't pm me or someone else they immediately said "is there some club I have to be apart of to get the info?" That is how this mess all started

Rihanna's fall collection came out and the code system worked until someone not in the know posted who had the collection up. I'm sorry it didn't really work. It was completely dumb of me to think that I could inform everyone of this info so that we were all on the same page. The thing that I loved about being on here is that even though the entire world can see everything we post it still felt like a family. So my thought process was to help out and protect my family, in essence.

BTW when I pm'd people not one said this was a bad idea or said it wouldn't work. NOT ONE.

Either way, Janice has a system planned and we'll just have to see it in action. Hopefully the forum will get back to the way it was when I first joined or even last year.

Also have to clarify that I posted several times if you have no clue of what is going on feel free to PM me. Others passed along that same message when some kept asking what is going on.
 

Ajigglin

New member
Medgal, the issue isn't about PMing in general - read Janice's original post. The issue was about the 'code' or 'system' in relation to MAC launches and how not everyone was in the know, specifically newbies or infrequent posters, because someone (or group) decided those people couldn't be trusted - but based on what criteria? Simply being a newbie? On top of that, anyone who publicly spoke about the 'code' was vilified for doing so, all of which created the impression that unless you were part of the mysterious 'club' or possessed some other unknown attribute, you were not permitted to know this top-secret information and shouldn't make the mistake of asking in the forum no less! Well, it's pretty hard to abide by a system about which you have been given little or no information. Anyone who asked publicly likely did so without realizing that others had already decided it was a hush-hush topic and were therefore criticized for it; but how were they to know it was a secret in the first place?? This is what we're saying. By the time you PM'd another member to ask what the code system was, it was too late. PMing has its place obviously - like the example you gave above for hard-to-fine items - that's great, and no one is disputing that; it has nothing to do with censorship or secrecy; that's your private business. But no one should be criticized for posting in a public forum dedicated to the topic about which they are posting; imposing secrecy or censoring information in a public forum is ridiculous and not in the spirit of Specktra.
But that code/system was also available to all members-old and new. I got the code, and I'm new. It was explained ad nauseum that the code was to deter lurkers-the ones that don't create an account, read the info, and run. If you created an account, you could get the code. This is supported by numerous threads in the MAC Chat section. If I never get another shred of info again because all the insiders decide to pay and post in the premium section, so be it. It was a good run, and I'll go back to what I did for MAC collections before, which worked quite nicely for me. There's always Sephora talk and such. I'm good either way.
 

AkeshialuvsMAC

New member
I see both sides but.... I am not payin for membership. Because there isnt a substantial difference with both threads. Give me something more and then I will re consider. Until then... i stand my ground
 

MissTT

New member
Medgal - What you're saying and what Janice is addressing are, I think, two different animals. I feel like this mentality started when Belk was coming up on the scene as an online provider of MAC collections. There started the fussing of not naming the site and posters calling it the secret site. People were definitely chastised for typing the word Belk. Not MAC. Not Nordstrom. Not Bloomingdales. Not even Dillards. But Belk. From there it has seemed to escalate into not posting where you purchased an item period. A few people started the chastising and now many more people, including new posters strangely, have jumped into the fray like a pack. The MAC threads - specifically RiRi collections - have become a really nasty place. (And not only for the above situation. That's another conversation to have over a glass bottle of wine.) It's so nasty that I don't even like to post there. And when I don't want to post there I don't want to read there. When I don't feel like reading I stop visiting the site. When I stop visiting the site... This is how great forums die. I've witnessed it several times before. Nastiness drives away the good members. The ones you actually want to meet in real life. The ones you call friends. They leave quietly, but they certainly leave.

I can think of at least 5 contributing members including myself who've been here over a year and were not privy to the MAC-Sellers-Code-Club. I was away for three days and came back to talk of "The Code" distributed via PM (or Facebook - I honestly don't know how it went down.) I'm not one to beg people to like me or be my friend so when I didn't get contacted it was clear this group wasn't intended for me. Who do I look like asking if I can sit at the popular girls' table? I didn't feel comfortable or welcome to ask about it. Despite being a daily poster it appeared I hadn't earned my stripes, wasn't in the right clique, or didn't kiss enough butts. A month or so later I was having a positive conversation with a person who knew about the code and after lots of PMing about another topic I finally asked her about it and she told me. While I know I could have PMd several people here and they would have immediately given me the information I did not feel comfortable doing so because I did not feel welcome. It's not in my personality to impose myself onto a group that sends a shred of evidence that they may not want me.
 

highheels

New member
Ajigglin and Richelle, I disagree. I recall discussions where members openly discussed whether only people with a certain post count should be privy to the code information, just like accessing the clearance bin. I recall one newbie in particular who was harshly criticized for asking about it on the same day she joined, everyone assumed the worst about her, it was terrible.
 

AkeshialuvsMAC

New member
Ajigglin and Richelle, I disagree. I recall discussions where members openly discussed whether only people with a certain post count should be privy to the code information, just like accessing the clearance bin. I recall one newbie in particular who was harshly criticized for asking about it on the same day she joined, everyone assumed the worst about her, it was terrible.
but doesn't that seem suspect to u? People continually do it. So maybe we should just blast every restock.... lets see who gets anything... smh
 

Janice

Specktra Bestie
I'm not sure how my original post was interpreted as fundamentally changing anything about the way the Color Collection forum currently works. That verbiage was not in the post and the forum is not fundamentally changing. Everyone can pick apart the idea until there are so many holes you can see right through it. It won't change the fact that we do not condone the current status quo of the Color Collection forum and are advocating change. The state of the Color Collections forum evolved on it's on and I'm not happy with the interactions I've witnessed, the PM's I've received (from NEW and OLD members alike!) and the members we've lost because they made the mistake of saying the "wrong thing" or because the tone of the Color Collections forum is no longer FUN and supportive like it used to be, rather now it can feel negative and snarky when the "drama" flares up.

However you approach it there is no perfect solution, and I for one am not going to advocate locking information up. That is the point I am trying to make. With the addition of this premium member perk you now have the CHOICE to chat in a private forum instead of trying to get navigate a social maze of who to contact and what to say. I've spoken with Richelle, the MAC Chat moderator, about it being a part of her moderating responsibility to share whatever PERTINENT release information (i.e. new collections) is shared in MAC Chat Premium. Specktra will still be your leading resource for MAC information regardless of if you choose to become a premium member because THAT'S WHAT WE STAND FOR. I would be a complete hypocrite if I had thought this through and accepted that it would cause the site to become pay for information. It's not who I am and it's not a direction I will willingly take the site in. In MAC Chat Premium will there be discussions that have information that you might not see in the public forum? Will someone maybe score a lipstick before you do because of something posted there? Sure! It's a private forum so people will talk more freely amongst themselves.

The two step process of registration and payment WILL assist in diverting the 1% of the population that could POSSIBLY be resellers and the larger "lurking" population that concerns some members. The more personal information those who are up to nefarious ends have to give up the less likely they are to do it. I think it's important to understand the "lurkers" are makeup addicts NO DIFFERENT than you. Maybe they are a member of another board or blog and they don't want to make an account because a) they don't have to to see the information and b) they prefer their community but can't get the same info there. It's not your job to police the forum for the few who are looking to exploit, being suspicious, and making those who don't "contribute" to some arbitrary standard feel like they are unwanted! I personally feel the reselling thing is blown WAY out of proportion. However, I listen and I respect the fact that people would like a private place to chat.

Okay, so what about the concern there will be people who abuse the system? Sure, maybe it might happen. However, in the YEARS that the Clearance Bin instant access with Premium Membership has been established we have never had a case of abuse. Not once. Also, don't underestimate the love, care, and personal time investment each of your staff members make in keeping up with forum activity and linking it to outside acts. Yes, we do it all the time because we care about protecting the community. If we find someone is abusing their privileges we remove them. It's not difficult to reason out that what we give we can also remove.

As far as asking "well if nothing is changing, why would someone pay"? I don't know, maybe because they want to support the site? Maybe because they want a private chat? Maybe they want instant Clearance Bin access? Whatever the many reasons people may have when they choose to subscribe the ultimate goal is to ensure they have the choice. No secret societies, no vague guidelines for access, no arbitrary standards that go against the nature of the site, and no "why was I left off the PM". A fair and level playing field. And one personal thing on this - I'm sorry but anyone who tells me that this wasn't meant to be an exclusive club was IN and obviously can not comprehend what it was like for the users who were "out" by post count or by pure apathy. Period.

The best, most beautiful, part of this whole thread is that you're talking about how you feel. Thank you for speaking up and making your voice heard. Together we can make beautiful changes to the site, shape it into a place we all want to be and where we all have a home. You are the smartest, prettiest, totally amazing group of people I know and you make me so proud to be here.
 
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