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highheels

Member
[COLOR=0000FF]   I read and comprehended the original post.  I was compelled to provide a semblance of clarity about a specific matter. Things transpired that[/COLOR] [COLOR=0000FF]   based on your remarks to me specifically, you were not and remain unaware of. Thank you.  [/COLOR] [COLOR=0000FF]  Now about the code---me choir, you preacher. I was off-line for several days. Upon my return I saw all the chatter about 'the code.'  I didn't[/COLOR] [COLOR=0000FF]  shrink into a corner or against a wall waiting to be asked to dance.  Rather, I two-stepped over to a fellow member and asked.  I was given[/COLOR] [COLOR=0000FF]  an [/COLOR][COLOR=0000FF]answer.  This is an imperfect system with a lot of incredibly nice people who just want it to work.  Best we focus on that! [/COLOR]    [COLOR=0000FF]THIS!!!![/COLOR]
You're still completely missing the point... I DID ask someone for the code and I did get it. However, we are talking about the PERCEPTION (is anyone with me here?) that was created by the fact that only certain people of unknown criteria were deemed worthy enough to receive in the first place! It has nothing to do with asking anyone for it or being a wallflower (??). As Janice already pointed out, those who were IN, such as yourself, cannot seem to comprehend what it was like for those who were out. I am advocating for those who felt slighted or left out. Anyway, this is my final post on the topic because you're just not getting it.
 

Naynadine

Veteran Moderator
Staff member
I agree with this. As I said before, I am relatively new, and any posts I saw about "codes" or "PM'ing" seemed like everything was VERY hush hush around it.

Quote: Originally Posted by highheels


You're still completely missing the point... I DID ask someone for the code and I did get it. However, we are talking about the PERCEPTION (is anyone with me here?) that was created by the fact that only certain people of unknown criteria were deemed worthy enough to receive in the first place! It has nothing to do with asking anyone for it or being a wallflower (??). As Janice already pointed out, those who were IN, such as yourself, cannot seem to comprehend what it was like for those who were out. I am advocating for those who felt slighted or left out. Anyway, this is my final post on the topic because you're just not getting it.
I don't think there was an ''in'' and ''out''. If you wanted to know what it was about you just had to ask! I asked and immediately had PMs from more than one member. There wasn't that much to it.
 

CrimsonQuill157

Active member
Now about the code---me choir, you preacher. I was off-line for several days. Upon my return I saw all the chatter about 'the code.' I didn't shrink into a corner or against a wall waiting to be asked to dance. Rather, I two-stepped over to a fellow member and asked. I was given
an answer. This is an imperfect system with a lot of incredibly nice people who just want it to work. Best we focus on that!
That is wonderful, but you are clearly not a new member. As a new member, I would not feel comfortable asking someone about it, as I saw the posts about it and they seemed completely exclusionary. I am not saying they are, but that is how they seemed. Also, based on the posts in this thread of the people who are "in" I would certainly NOT feel comfortable PM'ing a member for information. Call me a "wall flower" all you want to. The hostility in this thread is insane.
 

kimbunney

New member
You're still completely missing the point... I DID ask someone for the code and I did get it. However, we are talking about the PERCEPTION (is anyone with me here?) that was created by the fact that only certain people of unknown criteria were deemed worthy enough to receive in the first place! It has nothing to do with asking anyone for it or being a wallflower (??). As Janice already pointed out, those who were IN, such as yourself, cannot seem to comprehend what it was like for those who were out. I am advocating for those who felt slighted or left out. Anyway, this is my final post on the topic because you're just not getting it.
I completely agree. The PM thing creates a negative vibe. I don't know how you can explain it any other way. It's not about who got the PM it's really about certain people being so negative about information being shared publicly when it's a forum to discuss and share.
 

Naynadine

Veteran Moderator
Staff member
That is wonderful, but you are clearly not a new member. As a new member, I would not feel comfortable asking someone about it, as I saw the posts about it and they seemed completely exclusionary. I am not saying they are, but that is how they seemed. Also, based on the posts in this thread of the people who are "in" I would certainly NOT feel comfortable PM'ing a member for information. Call me a "wall flower" all you want to. The hostility in this thread is insane.
Really? I don't think that's true. It angers me a little to be honest to read this. If you would have spent some time here and read posts from poeple like Medgal, ElegantOne and a lot of other friendly members you would know that there isn't any reason to feel uncomfortable as a new member.

I really don't want to attack anyone, I'm happy about every single new member who wants to share their love of makeup here, but coming on here and complaining without even taking the time to get familiar with everything and the members, isn't fair at all.
 

boujoischic

New member
Really? I don't think that's true. It angers me a little to be honest to read this. If you would have spent some time here and read posts from poeple like Medgal, ElegantOne and a lot of other friendly members you would know that there isn't any reason to feel uncomfortable as a new member. I really don't want to attack anyone, I'm happy about every single new member who wants to share their love of makeup here, but coming on here and complaining without even taking the time to get familiar with everything and the members, isn't fair at all. 
I agree with you Medgal And ElegantOne are 2 of the nicest ladies you could meet on the site.
 

Audrey C

New member
I've been here awhile, and while I didn't complain I did find some of the comments offensive. From everyone? Certainly not. From some? Definitely.

I know that the code started with no ill intent, but let's not rewrite history. People were publicly chastised for committing the cardinal sin of sharing that a collection is up (public information). As Janice has said, this is not against forum rules. Here's an example:

"There's a couple people who have been asked to not blurt it out on the threads and continue to do so anyways so if that's not being malicious then it's definitely being an attention you know what."
"Rhymes with door."
"LOL"

Boy, I know that would make me feel welcome to contribute. As for everyone just getting the code when they asked for it, that didn't happen either.

"Oh my gosh my inbox has been flooded with information on the code. Lol
I will be going through and responding. This is going to sound so unfair but I think the rule is if you have little forum posts or recently made an account you're considered a red flag and can't get the code."


I agree that it sounds unfair to be 'considered a red flag'. Because it was.


Whether anyone intended for others to feel excluded or not, people did and that's legitimate. There were comments made that fostered that. Of course people will know whether or not that's what they intended, but no one gets to decide how other people should have felt about that.

I hope we can all move on and enjoy the site in accordance with the principles Janice has outlined and our own preferences. I like that people have a more restricted area to share information or swatches if they wish. I'm more than happy to share whatever information I have, so I'll continue to post in the regular session. That includes mentioning when I see a collection up and sharing my impressions.

I really enjoy this site and appreciate these changes.
 

Medgal07

New member
Medgal - What you're saying and what Janice is addressing are, I think, two different animals. I feel like this mentality started when Belk was coming up on the scene as an online provider of MAC collections. There started the fussing of not naming the site and posters calling it the secret site. People were definitely chastised for typing the word Belk. Not MAC. Not Nordstrom. Not Bloomingdales. Not even Dillards. But Belk. From there it has seemed to escalate into not posting where you purchased an item period. A few people started the chastising and now many more people, including new posters strangely, have jumped into the fray like a pack. The MAC threads - specifically RiRi collections - have become a really nasty place. (And not only for the above situation. That's another conversation to have over a glass bottle of wine.) It's so nasty that I don't even like to post there. And when I don't want to post there I don't want to read there. When I don't feel like reading I stop visiting the site. When I stop visiting the site... This is how great forums die. I've witnessed it several times before. Nastiness drives away the good members. The ones you actually want to meet in real life. The ones you call friends. They leave quietly, but they certainly leave.

I can think of at least 5 contributing members including myself who've been here over a year and were not privy to the MAC-Sellers-Code-Club. I was away for three days and came back to talk of "The Code" distributed via PM (or Facebook - I honestly don't know how it went down.) I'm not one to beg people to like me or be my friend so when I didn't get contacted it was clear this group wasn't intended for me. Who do I look like asking if I can sit at the popular girls' table? I didn't feel comfortable or welcome to ask about it. Despite being a daily poster it appeared I hadn't earned my stripes, wasn't in the right clique, or didn't kiss enough butts. A month or so later I was having a positive conversation with a person who knew about the code and after lots of PMing about another topic I finally asked her about it and she told me. While I know I could have PMd several people here and they would have immediately given me the information I did not feel comfortable doing so because I did not feel welcome. It's not in my personality to impose myself onto a group that sends a shred of evidence that they may not want me.
You think MissTT??? Of course they are. No refutation about that. But this is how it starts---someone comes along and decides to opine about a matter that started 10 pages ago--without the benefit of reading from the beginning. I agree that the MAC threads have become particularly venomous, and thus distasteful and unbecoming of any one in a civilized society. And if someone diverts from makeup chat (guilty) and flashes an occasional photo of a child/cat/dog so be it. I'd sooner indulge that, then how many MUAs or CSs someone cussed out because MAC sold out of product.

MissTT, I think no one was keeping up with who's present or not---an impossible task. You know how quickly the threads can progress--within minutes. I was off-line too and came back to see the chatter about a code. I didn't assume the posture of not being included for any reason other than I was not around, so I asked the question and I was given the answer. You admit above that you could have done the same thing.
 

Medgal07

New member
That is wonderful, but you are clearly not a new member. As a new member, I would not feel comfortable asking someone about it, as I saw the posts about it and they seemed completely exclusionary. I am not saying they are, but that is how they seemed. Also, based on the posts in this thread of the people who are "in" I would certainly NOT feel comfortable PM'ing a member for information. Call me a "wall flower" all you want to. The hostility in this thread is insane.
Well then I'm genuinely sorry you feel that way. I am not a hostile person and have gone out of my way to help others AND to join in. I wasn't calling YOU a wall flower but really meant it in an analogous way however, if the tulip fits...*throws hand over mouth. I'm sorry I must be one of the silliest people on Specktra--harmless. No one invited me "in" and I don't feel "in". I just chat with people and they chat back and we have harmless banter---it didn't happen overnight, but I made an effort. Don't condemn us---just join us.
 

shellygrrl

Moderator
Staff member
I don't remember seeing the Premium Membership being mentioned there as a solution, I don't think there was talk about a $100 fee.
I remember Janice brought it up when we admins and mods were discussing all this. Some Specktraites had suggested a small fee for a premium MAC section, and she suggested that it made no sense and that it was easier to add it on as a perk of Premium Membership, and I agreed with that. I also noted that I didn't believe there would be an easy solution, overall. $100 fee has nothing to do with the issue, though. It's completely optional and a way for members to make a one-time donation and have permanent Premium status. That's it.
[COLOR=0000FF]You admit above that you could have done the same thing.[/COLOR]
She didn't because she felt uncomfortable doing so, and she isn't the only one who has said as much. Please stop being dismissive and try to understand how it was for them.
 

sheROCKS

New member
Honestly, I'm not sure how this premium thing will work out but I've been on different forums before and I don't understand why that MAC section isn't set to private. Make people work for it if they really want the information. 20 posts or so isn't hard to get. People complain about it but I think the solution would be to just set it to private so people will be forced to join Specktra and have to post to see the information. Yeah, you'll get more people joining and then quit but that's why you filter them if they don't post after a certain amount of time. Also, although I like reading and seeing that people have other interests and its cool to talk to one another about the same interests, it makes the threads HUGE and kind of useless. I don't have the time to read every since post and its annoying when its not related to the topic.

That's my two cents.
 

Beautybuyer

New member
I've been here awhile, and while I didn't complain I did find some of the comments offensive. From everyone? Certainly not. From some? Definitely. I know that the code started with no ill intent, but let's not rewrite history. People were publicly chastised for committing the cardinal sin of sharing that a collection is up (public information). As Janice has said, this is not against forum rules. Here's an example:
First of all, we're aloud to talk and say what we want on here for the most part. We're not little children here we don't need to be censored. There are people on here who risk their jobs giving info and talking about release dates so no a lot of us respect that and like our little community and want certain things to stay within contributing members as friends. We all know there's lots of Lurkers here. If we want to try and keep things private what's really wrong with it? Does no one keep secrets with their friends? It wasn't intended for people who want to contribute as that was mention a ton of times, though you didn't quote that. I feel like posts like this start drama or continue old drama. You only included negative comments but failed to quote any that explained things and so on. If we want to crack jokes, really who cares. I usually try to keep it cool but seriously a post like this is seriously drama filled. This is to figure out a way to keep things more exclusive so obviously it's a problem on this site, though I think you're missing that point.
 

CartoonChic

New member
Thank you, Janice. This approach makes perfect sense to me. I like it a lot.

If I buy a membership, it will simply be to support the site I enjoy.
That's basically my reason for getting a membership. To support the site. I don't really care about having a private section or not. I suspect that I'll spend the bulk of my time in the free section anyway.
 

Medgal07

New member
She didn't because she felt uncomfortable doing so, and she isn't the only one who has said as much. Please stop being dismissive and try to understand how it was for them.
MissTT and I happen to be friends, and we chat daily. If she wants to elaborate on her feelings to me, trust me, she'll do so.
 

captodometer

New member
I've been a member of this site for 7.5 years. Some months I post a lot, some months I don't post anything at all. I do know that I would never pay for a premium membership, as most of the info provided here is available elsewhere for free if i"m willing to to take the time and look for it. I would miss the WOC forum, but there's no way I would pay for anything on this site.
 

CartoonChic

New member
Medgal - What you're saying and what Janice is addressing are, I think, two different animals. I feel like this mentality started when Belk was coming up on the scene as an online provider of MAC collections. There started the fussing of not naming the site and posters calling it the secret site. People were definitely chastised for typing the word Belk. Not MAC. Not Nordstrom. Not Bloomingdales. Not even Dillards. But Belk. From there it has seemed to escalate into not posting where you purchased an item period. A few people started the chastising and now many more people, including new posters strangely, have jumped into the fray like a pack. The MAC threads - specifically RiRi collections - have become a really nasty place. (And not only for the above situation. That's another conversation to have over a glass bottle of wine.) It's so nasty that I don't even like to post there. And when I don't want to post there I don't want to read there. When I don't feel like reading I stop visiting the site. When I stop visiting the site... This is how great forums die. I've witnessed it several times before. Nastiness drives away the good members. The ones you actually want to meet in real life. The ones you call friends. They leave quietly, but they certainly leave.

I can think of at least 5 contributing members including myself who've been here over a year and were not privy to the MAC-Sellers-Code-Club. I was away for three days and came back to talk of "The Code" distributed via PM (or Facebook - I honestly don't know how it went down.) I'm not one to beg people to like me or be my friend so when I didn't get contacted it was clear this group wasn't intended for me. Who do I look like asking if I can sit at the popular girls' table? I didn't feel comfortable or welcome to ask about it. Despite being a daily poster it appeared I hadn't earned my stripes, wasn't in the right clique, or didn't kiss enough butts. A month or so later I was having a positive conversation with a person who knew about the code and after lots of PMing about another topic I finally asked her about it and she told me. While I know I could have PMd several people here and they would have immediately given me the information I did not feel comfortable doing so because I did not feel welcome. It's not in my personality to impose myself onto a group that sends a shred of evidence that they may not want me.


Quote: Originally Posted by Ajigglin

@missTT- I'm curious as to why you didn't feel welcome. You are certainly a valuable and contributing member, and everyone likes and appreciates you. Maybe your answer is the missing piece to the puzzle as to why people felt things were cliquey.
I caught up on all the posts in this thread. Wow. It got heated in here.

I agree with MissTT. I haven't been in the MAC threads much lately because the atmosphere has changed. Nowadays I spend most of my time in non-MAC threads. I became a member only last year, and there is a definite difference. The environment isn't as friendly or as open as I remember. I decided to pop my head into the RiRi Holiday thread earlier this week to enjoy a good ol' stalking party like I did in the past. It just wasn't the same. Instead of the jokes, half asleep silliness and discussions about what we're going to do when we get our makeup; there was more drama, bickering, and insults. The virtual slumber party with my fellow makeup addicts that I remember so fondly seemed to have disappeared.

I also knew nothing of this new code system, (nor would I care to know as that's just too much for me) and was completely confused when I saw posts about the collection releasing at JCPenney, Sears, etc. I was thinking to myself, "when did those stores start carrying MAC?! Have I been away from the threads that long?" I asked MissTT what in the world was going on, and she explained it to me. I couldn't believe it. It seemed like anyone who didn't adhere to this new code were chastised and berated for not doing so. I don't like drama or negativity and will opt to just remove myself from those type of situations. Hopefully things will start to move in a more positive direction going forward.
 

CartoonChic

New member
I just thought of a possible incentive to include with the Premium Membership. I know there are many members, including myself, who have blogs, websites, YouTube pages and things that they would like to promote. Maybe a Premium Membership could also include some form of advertisement option if we wanted it. I know we can already mention things in our signatures for free, but maybe we could have some sort of thumbnail ad included under our profile pic or something of the like. Just an idea.
 

Vandekamp

New member
I've been here awhile, and while I didn't complain I did find some of the comments offensive. From everyone? Certainly not. From some? Definitely. I know that the code started with no ill intent, but let's not rewrite history. People were publicly chastised for committing the cardinal sin of sharing that a collection is up (public information). As Janice has said, this is not against forum rules. Here's an example:
Amen. Enough said. Thank you for providing exampls of posts that some may have forgotten. @ Highheels and @Cartoon Chic I support the case you made 100%. Perception can become reality. Many folks did feel left out. I recall one day when as many as 8-9 people, one person after another, requested to have access to the "code." Those folks (I'm sure there were dozens more) could not understand why they had not received it. Like Highheels said. If you were in the club and serving as the gatekeeper of the code you would not understand the point @Highheels made so elegantly.
 

Lalalish

Member
When I signed up, I bought a $15.00 membership just because I wanted to help support this site. I like Specktra & the different Forums. I'm a "Newbie" and understand that people stick together after they've been communicating so long, but I have never felt shunned or kept out of the "Loop". I look at pictures and I am constantly learning something new! I'm sorry that it has come down to this. But Thank You ALL for creating and contributing to this site. I don't feel & now know that I am not alone in my "Addiction"!! :urock:
 

BeautyByLele

New member
I'm not sure how my original post was interpreted as fundamentally changing anything about the way the Color Collection forum currently works. That verbiage was not in the post and the forum is not fundamentally changing. Everyone can pick apart the idea until there are so many holes you can see right through it. It won't change the fact that we do not condone the current status quo of the Color Collection forum and are advocating change. The state of the Color Collections forum evolved on it's on and I'm not happy with the interactions I've witnessed, the PM's I've received (from NEW and OLD members alike!) and the members we've lost because they made the mistake of saying the "wrong thing" or because the tone of the Color Collections forum is no longer FUN and supportive like it used to be, rather now it can feel negative and snarky when the "drama" flares up.  However you approach it there is no perfect solution, and I for one am not going to advocate locking information up. That is the point I am trying to make. With the addition of this premium member perk you now have the CHOICE to chat in a private forum instead of trying to get navigate a social maze of who to contact and what to say. I've spoken with Richelle, the MAC Chat moderator, about it being a part of her moderating responsibility to share whatever PERTINENT release information (i.e. new collections) is shared in MAC Chat Premium. Specktra will still be your leading resource for MAC information regardless of if you choose to become a premium member because THAT'S WHAT WE STAND FOR. I would be a complete hypocrite if I had thought this through and accepted that it would cause the site to become pay for information. It's not who I am and it's not a direction I will willingly take the site in. In MAC Chat Premium will there be discussions that have information that you might not see in the public forum? Will someone maybe score a lipstick before you do because of something posted there? Sure! It's a private forum so people will talk more freely amongst themselves. The two step process of registration and payment WILL assist in diverting the 1% of the population that could POSSIBLY be resellers and the larger "lurking" population that concerns some members. The more personal information those who are up to nefarious ends have to give up the less likely they are to do it. I think it's important to understand the "lurkers" are makeup addicts NO DIFFERENT than you. Maybe they are a member of another board or blog and they don't want to make an account because a) they don't have to to see the information and b) they prefer their community but can't get the same info there. It's not your job to police the forum for the few who are looking to exploit, being suspicious, and making those who don't "contribute" to some arbitrary standard feel like they are unwanted! I personally feel the reselling thing is blown WAY out of proportion. However, I listen and I respect the fact that people would like a private place to chat. Okay, so what about the concern there will be people who abuse the system? Sure, maybe it might happen. However, in the YEARS that the Clearance Bin instant access with Premium Membership has been established we have never had a case of abuse. Not once. Also, don't underestimate the love, care, and personal time investment each of your staff members make in keeping up with forum activity and linking it to outside acts. Yes, we do it all the time because we care about protecting the community. If we find someone is abusing their privileges we remove them. It's not difficult to reason out that what we give we can also remove.  As far as asking "well if nothing is changing, why would someone pay"? I don't know, maybe because they want to support the site? Maybe because they want a private chat? Maybe they want instant Clearance Bin access? Whatever the many reasons people may have when they choose to subscribe the ultimate goal is to ensure they have the choice. No secret societies, no vague guidelines for access, no arbitrary standards that go against the nature of the site, and no "why was I left off the PM". A fair and level playing field. And one personal thing on this - I'm sorry but anyone who tells me that this wasn't meant to be an exclusive club was IN and obviously can not comprehend what it was like for the users who were "out" by post count or by pure apathy. Period.  The best, most beautiful, part of this whole thread is that you're talking about how you feel. Thank you for speaking up and making your voice heard. Together we can make beautiful changes to the site, shape it into a place we all want to be and where we all have a home. You are the smartest, prettiest, totally amazing group of people I know and you make me so proud to be here. 
I haven't decided if I'm going to pay for a membership... Yet !!! But what might stop me is that which I bolded. If that area is going to be private... Why would info being shared there (private area) be subjected to be released in the free chat? Shouldn't whatever is discussed in the private area remain private? Isn't that the purpose of having a private area? For example if someone post early swatches of a collection in the private section and then the mods/or someone else post those same swatches in the "free " area.... Doesn't that go against the reason behind the private area?
 
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