MAC freelance rate?

[nursee81]

Quote:

Originally Posted by meaghanb2926 As head of HR for the company I work for, certainly yes I discourage employees from talking with other employees about what they make. However, I think it ridiculous to expect them not to discuss it with others outside of the company! Also, when perspective applicants call to inquire about available positions they certainly ask what the pay rates are or what the salary range is. While the pay is commiserate with experience, I absolutely let them know what they could expect to make if they applied and were accepted. It would be unfair of me not to and a waste of their time (and mine) to make them come in to interview only for them to find out that a wage is too low. I certainly am not suggesting that everyone divulge exactly what they make but I also think for the benefit of people here who are considering a career change and want to get into the makeup industry it is unfair to not give them an idea of what they could expect to make. The point of this site is to help people... How are you helping someone by refusing to give them an idea of what they could expect monetarily if they made a life altering choice such as a career change?

i agree well said

 

[miss_supra]

Quote:

Originally Posted by meaghanb2926 As head of HR for the company I work for, certainly yes I discourage employees from talking with other employees about what they make. However, I think it ridiculous to expect them not to discuss it with others outside of the company! Also, when perspective applicants call to inquire about available positions they certainly ask what the pay rates are or what the salary range is. While the pay is commiserate with experience, I absolutely let them know what they could expect to make if they applied and were accepted. It would be unfair of me not to and a waste of their time (and mine) to make them come in to interview only for them to find out that a wage is too low. I certainly am not suggesting that everyone divulge exactly what they make but I also think for the benefit of people here who are considering a career change and want to get into the makeup industry it is unfair to not give them an idea of what they could expect to make. The point of this site is to help people... How are you helping someone by refusing to give them an idea of what they could expect monetarily if they made a life altering choice such as a career change?

Yes, but that is why you ask a manager and not a regular employee. Which is was I suggested to call one in the first place. A lot of large companies do have policy not to have employees discuss their pay rates with each other, and sign that policy.

 

[glamdoll]

Quote:

Originally Posted by miss_supra Yes, but that is why you ask a manager and a a regular employee. Which is was I suggested to call one in the first place. A lot of large companies do have policy not to have employees discuss their pay rates with other, and sign that policy.

That is exactly right.

meaghanb2926 You said that YOU as head of HR would inform possible candidates. Well here, we are not HR. We are not to discuss our pay rate with anyone in or out of the company. As Miss Supra suggested, if she is really interested she can call the counter she is interested and inquire about pay rate, that would actually be more useful to her since it varies from region to region.

 

[meaghanb2926]

Quote:

Originally Posted by glamdoll That is exactly right. meaghanb2926 You said that YOU as head of HR would inform possible candidates. Well here, we are not HR. We are not to discuss our pay rate with anyone in or out of the company. As Miss Supra suggested, if she is really interested she can call the counter she is interested and inquire about pay rate, that would actually be more useful to her since it varies from region to region.

I am impressed that you can all stick to that, perhaps I am even more impressed with the MAC/Estee Lauder companies and their ability to instill this fear in their employees. The corporate machine at its best....

 

[glamdoll]

Quote:

Originally Posted by meaghanb2926 I am impressed that you can all stick to that, perhaps I am even more impressed with the MAC/Estee Lauder companies and their ability to instill this fear in their employees. The corporate machine at its best....

Well you can think what you want, but policy is policy.

How would you feel if I ask you right now how much you make at your job? its tacky and such a weird question to ask.

Usually anyone interested in a job, and want to know how much they pay, inquire with management.

It has nothing to do with actual fear, than following a job policy.

If you truly are head of HR, you would know that its just how it is at most places of business.

 

[darkwater_soul]

I work for the *fear machine* and never once have I divulged my info.

Most jobs politely ask you to not discuss pay, because it's unethical and can cause undesired hostile work environment. The reason most of us don't discuss our pay on the internet is because it is such a large, public forum and many folks have thier faces posted as user icons. It could potentially be hazardous to a career, for ANYONE. Also, it's just a requirement for the job, like a uniform. Black shirt, black shoes, no discussing wages. Eh.

 

[lara]

Quote:

Originally Posted by meaghanb2926 I am impressed that you can all stick to that, perhaps I am even more impressed with the MAC/Estee Lauder companies and their ability to instill this fear in their employees. The corporate machine at its best....

There's no need to ladle on that much hyperbole.

If people want to be cagey about their pay rates, then so be it. I know the bold-weight, font-size 72 Helvetica paragraph in my contract that says (paraphrased) 'public discussion of award rates, pay rates, penalty rates and other related wage figures is a terminable offence' is enough to make me only give vague answers when someone asks.
It's not so much The Man putting the fear into me as it is me not wanting to risk it in the first place. I signed the contact, I play by the rules stated in said contract.

 

[Chrystia]

MAC does ask us not to discuss rates outside the company or within the company. A huge reason artists in my area do no discuss this is it isn't anyone's business. It's a personal thing and doesn't need to be brought up. And like other girls here, I wouldn't risk my position with MAC for the world. Miss Supra has given a great suggestion, ask for manager, and they can make the decision whether to disclose that information.

 

[meaghanb2926]

Quote:

Originally Posted by glamdoll Well you can think what you want, but policy is policy. How would you feel if I ask you right now how much you make at your job? its tacky and such a weird question to ask. Usually anyone interested in a job, and want to know how much they pay, inquire with management. It has nothing to do with actual fear, than following a job policy. If you truly are head of HR, you would know that its just how it is at most places of business.

If you asked me what I made because you were seeking a similar position and wanted some sort of idea of what the potential was, certainly I would give you a range. This thread was started by someone asking for a range, no one flat out asked what anyone made right down to the dollars and cents.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lara There's no need to ladle on that much hyperbole. If people want to be cagey about their pay rates, then so be it. I know the bold-weight, font-size 72 Helvetica paragraph in my contract that says (paraphrased) 'public discussion of award rates, pay rates, penalty rates and other related wage figures is a terminable offence' is enough to make me only give vague answers when someone asks. It's not so much The Man putting the fear into me as it is me not wanting to risk it in the first place. I signed the contact, I play by the rules stated in said contract.

Uhhhh...Isn't your not wanting to talk about pay for FEAR of risking your job a form of fear?

Im not knocking anyone for not wanting to talk about pay and I think everyone is missing that. Everyone is entitled to talk about what they choose. I am simply trying to point out that MAC/Estee Lauder has built a very well oiled machine and it is just that.... a machine. A huge corporation that has making money down to a tee. Its sad to sometimes see how these huge corporations change over time and how what once started as a company with a high quality product geared towards artists has lost sight of its original goal.

 

[OfficerJenny]

I don't see why you would need to make a big deal about people respecting their contract and not wanting to discuss their pay rates with other people on an internet forum.
:c

 

[miss_supra]

Quote:

Originally Posted by meaghanb2926 If you asked me what I made because you were seeking a similar position and wanted some sort of idea of what the potential was, certainly I would give you a range.

Is your reading comprehension really that low? YOU work for HR, of course you can give a range. We are not managers nor work in HR. Which is why we suggested the original poster to contact their local counter manager. Get off your high horse and read what we are actually saying.



Quote:

Uhhhh...Isn't your not wanting to talk about pay for FEAR of risking your job a form of fear?

Actually, it is a form of abiding by a contract we signed. I am sure you are aware, since you work in an HR department, when you sign a contract and you do not follow the contract you could be let go.

Quote:

Im not knocking anyone for not wanting to talk about pay and I think everyone is missing that. Everyone is entitled to talk about what they choose. I am simply trying to point out that MAC/Estee Lauder has built a very well oiled machine and it is just that.... a machine. A huge corporation that has making money down to a tee. Its sad to sometimes see how these huge corporations change over time and how what once started as a company with a high quality product geared towards artists has lost sight of its original goal.

No, you seem to be missing a huge point. We signed a contract and cannot discuss it at all. End of story.

 

[hickle]

Woo! This is turning catty! Before you all rip each other to shreds, let's all just agree to disagree!

At my first job we all discussed salary unabashedly, because nobody made any money. Now, I still want to know what other people make, but I don't actually want to share how much I make, because like someone else already mentioned, I don't want the other person to get upset because I make more than them. It is a little taboo to discuss wages with co-workers, but it definitely gets done and generally speaking, nothing bad happens as a result.

I can understand why someone wouldn't want to discuss their wages on this thread since people have pictures of their faces plastered all over this board. It makes sense. It can't hurt asking though! If you're worried you might suffer reprucussions at work for discussing your wages on this thread, don't do it, but let other people carry on however they want.

 

[baybehbekah]

Quote:

Originally Posted by miss_supra Is your reading comprehension really that low?

wow!

i think what she's trying to get at is; if someone was thinking of changing jobs and wanted to gather some information on a certain type of job that they could ask people in the same or similar position, what they could expect to recieve as far as salary.

for example, at my counter there was an opening for a new assistant. the person that applied for it asked some of her friends, with similar positions what she should ask for and or what to expect to recieve. i find that to be normal, and that is what the person that started this thread was really asking. if someone doesn't want to share their information thats fine, but if someone else does, then so be it.

 

[calbear]

I think the issue here is that many in this thread have mentioned having jobs that all did not look kindly upon wage discussion but the poster seems to think it's only MAC and their 'machine' ways that do this.

 

[glamdoll]

Its just the fact that it has already been said, that its policy not to say your wage. And as for even a range, it varies. So what would be the point of me saying oh from XX to XX if when they get an actual range it can be lower and such.

If they are interested contacting management is the best way to go.

Pay even estimates is very personal in my opinion.

There was a thread where someone gave ranges already, the serch option is availble for this purpose.

 

[baybehbekah]

if there is already a thread about this then maybe the issue should be a sticky so that new people don't have to make these kind of threads and these sort of debates would be all in one place.

if someone doesn't want to say anything about their pay, then why even post a response to a thread like this? i'm not saying that to be rude, but if you have nothing to say then why say anything?

 

[miss_supra]

Quote:

Originally Posted by baybehbekah if someone doesn't want to say anything about their pay, then why even post a response to a thread like this? i'm not saying that to be rude, but if you have nothing to say then why say anything?

To give some sort of advice, talking to a manager instead asking here and telling people we can't go over pay information. It's better than just ignoring her. I would love to help her, but I have a contract I said and can't go over it. Everyone signs the same one.

 

[breeknee]

Personally I think it has more to do with loving the company you work for, and when they ask you not to do something, you don't do it. I didn't have to sign a contract in order for me to not tell people what freelance pay is, because I was told not to by a manager I respect for a company I respect.

I'm sorry that you live in the fanciful world of everyone being out to get you and trying to control your life and big brother and The Man but some of us just stand by integrity.

Furthermore, my brother's best friend was once fired from a job for discussing pay rates. He thought that it was illegal and even contacted a lawyer about it. The lawyer basically looked at his contract and said that his termination papers said he was in breach of the contract he signed. Meaning that he signed a document saying he wouldn't do a list of things, and then did one. The fact that he SIGNED the contract meant that they were allowed to fire him. If they had simply asked him not to and he did it thats one thing but he physically signed a contract. If you work in an office setting and someone dyes their hair blue and they get fired for it, they can certainly sue, unless they signed a document stating they would not do so.

You seem so young and self righteous with your logic. Its great to be passionate about something, but when a group of people refuse to give their pay rate, or even a range, that is their prerogative. And if we signed a contract saying we wouldn't do so, to me that means I gave my word, and that actually means something to me. I don't care how stupid you think it is, or if you think its fear, because to me it isn't, to me it is pride.

 

[erine1881]

Quote:

Originally Posted by baybehbekah if there is already a thread about this then maybe the issue should be a sticky so that new people don't have to make these kind of threads and these sort of debates would be all in one place. if someone doesn't want to say anything about their pay, then why even post a response to a thread like this? i'm not saying that to be rude, but if you have nothing to say then why say anything?

making it a sticky won't keep people from posting duplicate threads. people post threads identical to current stickies because they don't read the rules or choose to ignore them, making more work for the mods, having to merge duplicates.

and if those of us who stand by our contract and refuse to say what we make didn't post, then this thread would be blank.

 

[babyjazy21]

wow so I guess a lot of people misunderstood my first post, so go ahead and read it once or more if necessary. I said if freelance from oncall pay rates are different in no moment did I ask how much was it. Miss_supra mislead a lot of people bc she said ask the manager for wages since we shouldn't go over then. Thanks but that wasn't my question and I don't need to know what u make or not bc it's not my business. All I asked is if it's two different rates which is a yes or no answer. No need to go into details nor to pull out your pay stubb to post exact wages