Religious Extremists.

[Shimmer]

Eh. I suppose the thread IS about extremists, as opposed to moderates.
Example: the women you're speaking of, those fall into extremist categories.
The people I'm speaking of aren't extremists. They're simply people of faith who are living their life usually in manner that makes them happy while benefiting others.
To compare an extremist to a moderate is, I guess, setting oneself up for failure.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by starshapedshard I think you may have missed the point I was trying to make. To me, religion means devotion. Can a person not be devoted to any of the things I listed in my previous post? Starbucks in itself my not constitute as a religion, but in combination with other things that you are "bound" to that are not a god, it can be.

I would think devotion to a religion goes a bit farther than devotion to watching a TV show, or getting my morning coffee. Please explain how your useing the word "bound" in this context.


Quote:

The word religion is a vague word and is often consticted. You could look in the dictionary and see where it says "worship of a god", but you can also look in a dictionary and see that in some cases, marriage means a "bind between a man and a woman."

Lots of words have many meanings. Language isn't static, and words are constantly evolving. Your example of marriage isn't really relevant though to this context. Religion as an institution has to deal with believeing in some sort of a being who is above being just a human. Just because I have a coffee addiciton and prefer starbucks (i don't but just to stay consistant) and have a favorite TV show that I get together with my girlfriends to watch weekly, doesn't mean were practising religion.

Quote:

"The word religion is a word of forced application when used with respect to the worship of God." (Thomas Paine) AND, if someone doesn't have a religion, THAT IS their religion. They're bound to not having a god. Anyways, there was no ill-feelings felt while typing that!

Not haveing a religion, isn't suddenly religion. There isn't any consiquences if someone who is an atheist or an agnostic suddenly finds god. There not losing any affiliation with their former religion (entrance to paradise/heaven/whatever if their wrong) since they didn't have one to begin with.

You could argue that being an atheist or agnostic is a religion, and that the act of not believeing is what they believe in. But at that point your really just arguing symantics.

 

[Raerae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer Eh. I suppose the thread IS about extremists, as opposed to moderates. Example: the women you're speaking of, those fall into extremist categories. The people I'm speaking of aren't extremists. They're simply people of faith who are living their life usually in manner that makes them happy while benefiting others. To compare an extremist to a moderate is, I guess, setting oneself up for failure.

Yeh, I doubt a family of moderate's would really care if you stopped going to church, temple, mosque, whatever. Some familes however...

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae Yeh, I doubt a family of moderate's would really care if you stopped going to church, temple, mosque, whatever. Some familes however...

I don't think one has to be an extremist to be disappointed if their wife/mom/son/father/brother whatever decided to stop taking part in something one deems important.
The moderate is disappointed.
The extremist is violent about it either verbally, physically, or theologically.

 

[ilovexnerdsx]

i grew up a christian but after facing many doubts, i started looking into it and doing my own research and i've come to my own conclusions.

i am an atheist. also, i have done a ton of community service. also, i am a teenager with raging hormones and somehow still a virgin. also, i wear color, i love my grandma, and i treat people with respect.

atheist might come with the connotation of a lack of morals, but based on the grand majority of people i've met, it's absolutely not true.

christianity (or any religion, for that matter) generally use rewards/punishments(heaven/hell) to enforce the morals it teaches. i have values ... i just don't believe i'm going to heaven for abstaining, or hell for being bisexual.

i do not believe in a deity. i do not base my life around a text. does that make me a bad person?

i think i've gotten off track here.

 

[Shimmer]

The reward/punishment thing is actually a bit of misunderstanding, to a degree.
You don't get to go into heaven just for 'being good'.

 

[starshapedshard]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae I would think devotion to a religion goes a bit farther than devotion to watching a TV show, or getting my morning coffee. Please explain how your useing the word "bound" in this context.

Which is why I said, in my post, that there are different degrees of worshipping. I used the word bound because it relates perfectly to what I was trying to explain. Religion does mean "bound" to something. Bound to prayer, bound to science, bound to anything.




Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae Lots of words have many meanings. Language isn't static, and words are constantly evolving.

Which is what I've been saying this whole time?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae Your example of marriage isn't really relevant though to this context.

The substance may have been irrelevant, but the example wasn't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae Religion as an institution has to deal with believeing in some sort of a being who is above being just a human.

And nothing more? You said words are evolving, but this one isn't allowed to? In the business world, if a company finds religion, it means they are no longer corrupt. Does this mean they found God?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae Just because I have a coffee addiciton and prefer starbucks (i don't but just to stay consistant) and have a favorite TV show that I get together with my girlfriends to watch weekly, doesn't mean were practising religion.

I never really (did I, haha?) gave a concrete meaning to TV or anything being a religion. That can be up for debate. What I did give ( or I thought) was an explanation of something that was my opinion, which is that something other than a god can be a religion to someone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae Not haveing a religion, isn't suddenly religion. There isn't any consiquences if someone who is an atheist or an agnostic suddenly finds god. There not losing any affiliation with their former religion (entrance to paradise/heaven/whatever if their wrong) since they didn't have one to begin with.You could argue that being an atheist or agnostic is a religion, and that the act of not believeing is what they believe in.

I don't know what you mean by "suddenly." How is atheism not a religion? I'm sorry, I genuinely don't understand the logic, but I'm a bit slow sometimes, that could be it.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Raerae But at that point your really just arguing symantics.

If you came to the conclusion that I'm just arguing Semantics beforehand, why did I have to explain further? Many people share my semanitic opinions on the word, and the same goes for you. Why are we groaning about it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilovexnerdsx i think i've gotten off track here

Well, I think I've derailed the thread. I'm sorry, guys.

 

[user79]

Quote:

Originally Posted by starshapedshard I don't know what you mean by "suddenly." How is atheism not a religion? I'm sorry, I genuinely don't understand the logic, but I'm a bit slow sometimes, that could be it.

You're not slow, you just are not clear maybe on what atheism really means.

First, let's look at what is religion and how is it defined:

http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQ...l_religion.htm

Quote:

The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, in its article on Religion, lists some characteristics of religions. The more markers that are present in a belief system, the more "religious like" it is. Because it allows for broader grey areas in the concept of religion, I prefer this over more simplistic definitions we can find in basic dictionaries. Read the list and see how atheism fares : 1. Belief in supernatural beings (gods). 2. A distinction between sacred and profane objects. 3. Ritual acts focused on sacred objects. 4. A moral code believed to be sanctioned by the gods. 5. Characteristically religious feelings (awe, sense of mystery, sense of guilt, adoration), which tend to be aroused in the presence of sacred objects and during the practice of ritual, and which are connected in idea with the gods. 6. Prayer and other forms of communication with gods. 7. A world view, or a general picture of the world as a whole and the place of the individual therein. This picture contains some specification of an over-all purpose or point of the world and an indication of how the individual fits into it. 8. A more or less total organization of one's life based on the world view. 9. A social group bound together by the above.

Atheists do not fall into this category, so they do not fall under the category of a religion.

Agnostic Theism: belief in a god without claiming to know for sure that the god exists.
Gnostic Theism: belief in a god while being certain that this god exists.
Agnostic Atheism: disbelief in gods without claiming to know for sure that none exist.
Gnostic Atheism: disbelief in gods while being certain that none (can or do) exist.



Hope that helped to clarify things a bit. An atheist is someone who does not have any beliefs in any gods. No claims or denials are made — an atheist is just a person who does not happen to be a theist.

You can find more info here: http://atheism.about.com/od/definiti...smReligion.htm

 

[MxAxC-_ATTACK]

I was JUST about to post the difference between being agnostic, and being atheist, because it seems the two are being confused. but misschievous has beat me to it.

 

[jillianjiggs]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer Jillian, I wasn't meaning you specifically. I'm sorry it came out that way.

no worries, i didn't mean to come off defensive! i reread my atheist comment and could see how it could have shown that i believed that the basis of those who are atheist are anti religion

 

[Edie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissChievous Honestly, I don't see what good religion does at all.

Religion brings faith and hope to many. Could you ask for anything more?

Personally I don't like putting the words Religious and Extremists together. These 'Islamic Extremists' really have nothing to do with religion. SURE they claim that is their reason. They preach that it is what their Quran (spelling sorry) tells them but that couldn't be a bigger load of bull! Its propaganda and brainwashing at its highest form.

It just so happens that suicide is very much looked down upon in Islam. As is killing people.

And the whole 'granted 50 beautiful wives' crap that people keep bringing up is an absolute joke! It just so happens that the word used for this 'Harem' means evil or wrong doing (or something like).

Perhaps off topic but after 911, a GIRL was bashed and sent to hospital from my school because she was Islamic and a bunch of guys thought this was cause to harm her. It is ignorant people like these that label people and why there is so much hate in people. Her religion may have the same name as theirs but that DOES NOT mean she has the same beliefs.

I believe in the pure form of religion which to me is FAITH. I don't care what anyone else believes, I would never try and make someone believe differently. No-one really has that right.

I like im sure many would like a world where people can be just accepted as people no matter their religion, sex, race, sexual preference etc etc.

So Im going to end with a big

 

[*Stargazer*]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer The moderate is disappointed. The extremist is violent about it either verbally, physically, or theologically.

This is the most important distinction that can be made.

 

[kymmilee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimmer This statement is every BIT as closed minded as the religions you say you dislike so much.

agreed 100%
religion may not be for you, but that doesn't mean there isn't anything good about it for OTHER PEOPLE.

anyway, i was brought up with religion forced on me, whether i liked it or not. [needless to say, i'm very un-religious now] i think it's very important to let children decide whether they believe or not. that being said, i obviously think it's ridiculous that some religions baptize children while they are still infants. my understanding is that baptism is a personal choice to give your life to jesus [or whoever you may believe in].
i just read this book called Letter To A Christian Nation by Sam Harris and if you're not really sure about how you feel about religion, you should read it. some of it is a little narrow minded, but if you're mature at all, you'll understand that you don't have to believe every little thing he says in there.

 

[Shimmer]

another good source of information is

www.skepticalchristian.com

 

[masad]

oki..now i get to say something here..being a muslim, i can explain few things when it comes to so called "islamic extremist"!
not only they are islamic extremist, there are other kinds also..some of you may disagree, but i have seen chirstians,hindus,zionist extremists as well!! though muslims are given more "lime light"

Islam does not ..and let me repeat DOES NOT permit suicide bombings!! it DOES NOT permit a person to kill another person.. it DOES NOT permit a muslim to kill someone or abuse on grounds of any racial/cultural/religious discrimination!!!

we have a concept of hell and heaven. I dont care whether someone belives in it or not.. Now..according to our belief and according to Quran, someone who kills another humanbeing or commits suicide or hurts anyone for any reason will not be forgiven by ALLAH.
Suicide is HARAM(Stirctly prohibited and punishable) in Islam!!..

these bombings, killings done on the name of Islam...is pure ignorance..these people will not be rewarded by ALLAH ..they will be pushnished because they are killers of innocent lives and its not in their hand to give some one life or some death!!..

Now these "Idiots"(sorry i am being rude) but these soo called islamic leaders(as Bin Laden from AlQaeda or Sadam from Iraq etc) did wrong. They are NOT ALLOWED NOT PERMITTED OR NOR DO THEY HAVE ANY AUTHORITY, ANY AUTHORITY WHATSOEVER to order suicide bombings or attack on any country,religious group or any human being. Islam will not consider them even muslims if they resort to voilence!..

I am not a perfect muslim. I dont pray 5 times i day, But i know ALLAH does not allow any of us to claim life of another human being. A person who does this will go to hell and will be punished till eternity!!

Islam is a religion of peace. It says, if someone is doing something bad, try to stop them by talks, try to convince them that they are wrong but DO NOT use voilence.DO NOT HURT THEM.

these bombers are idiots and they are brainwashed by idiots like them. THis is not "Jihad", this is murder!!

i hope people learn the difference b/w real islam and so called religion which these extremist preach!!

 

[V15U4L_3RR0R]

Thank you very much for that useful insight. It's nice to see it from a Muslim point of veiw.

I personally agree with everything you just said Masad. A lot of people have got the wrong end of the stick about Islam because of a few extremists which is a shame.

As for religion in general, I think within small communities it can provide solice and comfort in times of need. I do not think that it's pointless though. To each his own. If you're an Atheist then good for you. A large percentage of my friends are Atheist and they have never once said believing in God is stupid or whatever. And if you do have Faith in a Deity then good for you as well. If the shit fits, wear it. It's all about personal choice and I think that some people who are particularly religion forget that because they think (naturally) that what's best for them is good for everyone else and they want to 'save' people.

Extremists are desperate people in my veiw and they feel that their actions are the only way to get across their point of veiw. For example think of the Suffragettes. They were extremists because they were desperate to be heard but how many of us remember the original movement of the Suffragists who did everything peacefully and in a law abiding way. They were moderates but not many know who they are. It doesn't take much to move from moderate to extremist given the right conditions whether it be poverty or injustice.

I personally am an Eclectic Pagan. I get arguments from all sides about it. But I always tell people that this is my choice and when the time comes I shall answer for it just like anyone else.

 

[amelia.jayde]

i hardly even know what to say about this topic. no, i don't think all religious people are stupid and brain-washed. i do think that a considerable amount of them are, though, at least through my experience. i've met so many raised religious people who aren't even up for learning about or listening to any other beliefs, because their mom, their church or whatever told them not to. i get told that i'm gonna go to hell and burn for all eternity for being who i am nearly every day and yeah, these things bother me and make me come off pretty bitter, sometimes. no, it doesn't make me happy when i'm told that my sexuality and gender identity are comparable to murder, because the bible says they're sinful and all sins are equal.

i think too many people i've come across are religious just because they wanna go to a good place when they die, they need rules to follow or because their mama told them so and it's all they know. not because they're actually spiritual and have faith in it. but whatever, the moment i have a problem with someone's beliefs is the moment their beliefs lead them to try to interfere with my life or my rights.

and just so we're all clear, i'm not at all saying that all or most religious people are out to interfere with how everyone lives their life, or that they're brain-washed, or just afraid of the afterlife. i'm just saying that i come across that kinda thing a lot. i wouldn't stop liking someone or not talk to someone or anything like that, just because they're religious. as long as you're tolerant and accepting and not hurting anyone or trying to vote down other people's rights because of it, then i think it's great that you believe whatever you do.