The war in Iraq (split from WHO is Jesus?)

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lalli dont mean to sound rude, but their violence is their business not Americas or the UK's, i know someone whos brother was 19 only 19 and was in Iraq for 3 months and was killed, innocent troops regardless of what race religion they are, are getting KILLED when it has NOTHING and ABSOLOUTLEY NOTHING to do with AMERICA OR THE UK. if there is civil war in a country it needs to be dealt with it itself. no need for George Bush or Tony blair to stick their as sses in and cause more problems

You know what? I just found this post, and I have to answer it because of my history.
I am an isolationist. I believe in neutrality, and believe me when I say I'd love to see that area of the world do nothing more than reduce itself to kitty litter WITHOUT my tax dollars going to waste. I would love love love for my kids to be able to see their father on a weekly basis instead of having the knowledge that he is in a place that has people aiming for him daily. I would LOVE to have the knowledge that my brother, God help him, didn't feel COMPELLED to volunteer himself AGAIN to go over there for another year.
But that's not the reality.
The reality is for the ones who are shooting at my brother, and my exhusband, and my best friends, there are two or three who are literally GRATEFUL for their presences over there and the job they do. The orphans who until they met my brother had never had jolly ranchers and who fell in love with my brother's OIC and the little girl who he nearly adopted are GRATEFUL for their presence, and the families who just want to get up, do their thing, and go to bed safely at night without the drama and bullshit, the ones who have given gifts to the soldiers of thanks, and the ones who have written, painstakingly difficult, letters of thanks to my brother, my exhusband and my best friends, they are the ones who make me believe the presence over there, while not a pretty thing, is a necessary evil, even though, as I said, I'd much rather see the whole godforsaken region obliterated.

 

[Lalli]

two or three being grateful is not enough. america and the uk need to find ways better then sticking their foot into a civil war, its all about oil. simple as

 

[Shimmer]

two or three?
No, not two or three. I said for every "one" that is out attempting and creating violence there are ''two or three" who are grateful for the presence. That's certainly more than two or three.
Hundreds. Entire villages and groups of people coming to the soldiers and thanking them.
And, if it were about oil, it wouldn't cost me nearly a hundred dollars to fill up the tank on a vehicle I bought not because I wanted it but because my lifestyle demands I own one. (I drive a truck.) If it were about oil, then the orders for the soldiers wouldn't be what they are.

I don't agree with our presence there, understand that. I'd like nothing better than to have my government spend my tax dollars on things like healthcare, a better infrastructure that would allow us to NOT be dependent on oil, and things like that.
But, we are over there, and while you certainly have a right to your opinion based on what your perception, I have a right to mine based on my perception, as well as direct information from the frontlines.

 

[Lalli]

Thing is if the civil wars had carried on it would be impossible for foreign countries to get what they want from there. the troops are sent just so things can be kept under "control" and oil is still supplied worldwide. you're entitled to your opinions and im entitled to mine whole reason america barged into Iraq was after 9/11 with claims that osama bin laden and saddam hussain are involved etc etc, yet they are still there. innocent troops r getting killed, and there is more and more case of suicide bombings and violence simply becasue they are not wanted there. its all political, no emotions involved


Quote:

Originally Posted by shimmer two or three? No, not two or three. I said for every "one" that is out attempting and creating violence there are ''two or three" who are grateful for the presence. That's certainly more than two or three. Hundreds. Entire villages and groups of people coming to the soldiers and thanking them. And, if it were about oil, it wouldn't cost me nearly a hundred dollars to fill up the tank on a vehicle I bought not because I wanted it but because my lifestyle demands I own one. (I drive a truck.) If it were about oil, then the orders for the soldiers wouldn't be what they are. I don't agree with our presence there, understand that. I'd like nothing better than to have my government spend my tax dollars on things like healthcare, a better infrastructure that would allow us to NOT be dependent on oil, and things like that. But, we are over there, and while you certainly have a right to your opinion based on what your perception, I have a right to mine based on my perception, as well as direct information from the frontlines.

 

[Shimmer]

Like I said, I would LOVE to not have my baby brother feel compelled to be over there to protect some orphan from stepping on an IED or to patrol to make sure stupid people aren't doing stupid things.

But that's not the reality.


And, if the troops were removed today right now, everything that has been built since Hussein's fall would crumble as the area destabilized.

 

[Lalli]

husseins real reasons are his feelings towards Shia muslims. a sect of muslims. not americans not british not asian. Shia's. so the need for troops is not needed.

 

[Shimmer]

That's completely untrue.
It doesn't work that way.
If the troops pulled out there would not be, as you stated earlier in the thread, peace in the area.
Even more to the point, someone more corrupt and twisted than Hussein could effectively take power in the region, during its time of weakness, and create more genocide and mass murder.
Are you denying that Hussein committed mass murder and genocide?
A nation left without a government in firm control is open for all kinds of bad things to happen.
And, I think it's well documented regarding Hussein's opinion on America.

 

[Hawkeye]

OH now, we have started issues.
Let me begin to tell you-I have written to a group of 30 marines. I have a very dear friend over in the Marines-all in Iraq. Because of those 30 marines, I have men from all over Iraq in contact with me that are Marines, Navy men and women, Army, and Air Force, and to say that only 2 or 3 is LAUGHABLE.

Lalli, They get surrounded like celebrities out in Iraq, the men and women of the US do. Most Iraqi's they are trusting of our men and women knowing its not a dictatorship. I have pictures of walls being covered with LETTERS from Iraqi Children on these guys walls. Not hate letters, actual letters of gratitude.

These people used to live in fear. The women would be raped ruthlessly, the guys they would be tortured if they even sneared at a picture of Saddam Hussain.

It took from 1776-1886 for the US to get stabalized to be where we are today. That's a hundred years. It started with the Declaration of independence and ended with the civil war-and believe it or not-France, Spain, and even England helped with our little civil war.

Countries can't fight these things by themselves without outside help. Look at Sudan. We haven't helped them that much and look where its gotton them. Look at Zimbabwae, no one has helped them that much and yet another dictator has gained power.

And quite frankly, if this were all about oil-then why do our gas prices keep going up? If it were all about oil, the orders would be - Screw getting a government, lets take the country as is and start getting oil into our system.

NO.

Furthermore, how often, Lalli, do you expect a leader of the country in the UN to ignore its sanctions? The UN gave him orders to let them see into his country to look for WMD and somehow he wouldn't let them in. He actually told one group they had 48 hours to leave his country. He did genocide for his people-EVEN if they weren't the Sunni's and the man kept breaking the laws but no other country cared. Who cared if he might decide to try some of the crap he used with his people on say the Iranians or maybe Kuwait? Nobody would stand up to him.

It drives me crazy when people use that lame argument it's all about oil. It's the lamest excuse ever. Even I don't necessarily agree that we should be over there but what's done is done and I am very happy that the Hussain is out and Al-zarqawi is dead.

The Iraqi government is getting stabalized and I predict the troops are going to be coming home.

Now about these "innocent troops", darlin, they signed up to go over there. When they joined the military they signed saying it would be OK to go into war. They know. If they didn't agree with the war they wouldnt be there-instead they'd be over here sitting on their ass.

OK sorry, now im off my soap box.

 

[Shimmer]

whoever split the topic, thanks.

 

[Lalli]

what about all these so called american soldiers raping and killing innocent women. what about all those pictures released in the tabloids of soldiers treating the citizens like sh it. im not sayin the iraqis dont appreciate the help they get BUT its also causing more problems. and again america is a oil greedy nation. if they dont have power of those nations means oil supplies will stop. it is all to do with money and oil, and troops are wasting their time and tax payers money out there

 

[Shimmer]

Bullshit.

American soldiers raping and killing innocent women intentionally doesn't happen.
The VAST majority of the soldiers who are over there have ZERO interest in the women there.
I see you live in the UK.

Go live life in Iraq as a female for a few years and let us know how you feel about the presence of the troops after staying in more fundamental areas vs areas with a stronger troop presence.

As I stated in the other thread, you're grasping now, much as quandolak was.
Even more to the point...
Who is going to stand up for the underdogs in that area? You haven't answered that.
I haven't seen any so called peace loving Muslims speaking out against the genocide, nor have I seen them stepping up to the plate and going to bat for the masses who were being tortured, killed, and hunted down by Hussein's regime.

 

[Lalli]

how do you justify the holding of young children in Guantanamo Bay, in camp X Ray. an American led Camp, i respect your opinions but you cant just try to make it sound like my opinions are not justified,

Kanye west isnt a joke. he made a valid point. why was aid so slow? is it because it was a highly black populated area. why do celebrites fork out more then the actual government do, why isnt the "greatest nation on earth" helping to end more important things like poverty and 3rd world debts. why get involved in a civil war when you're not wanted there in the first place.

billions of dollars spent on war could easily have wiped out 3rd world debts and help people with AID's TB and other infectious diseases. help all those kids dying in africa, help your own nation get rid of its slums and help homeless people. no instead go and sit on another countries door step and spend time there waste money recieve fame and spark more issues

 

[Lalli]

intentionally doesnt happen? ur trying to tell me a man is at "war" and wants to satisfy his sexual needs but cnt do so with men, you need to open you eyes love. it happens, whether you like it or not. you cant speak for the VAST majority of soldiers can you? i know for a fact life for women is hard there but americans arent making it easier are they. your talking as though they are god's gift to Iraq. as for so called peace talking muslims you need to look beyond american views. have you ever thought maybe no one wants anything to do with scum like saddam hence dont want to speak about anything he as done or whatever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shimmer Bullshit. American soldiers raping and killing innocent women intentionally doesn't happen. The VAST majority of the soldiers who are over there have ZERO interest in the women there. I see you live in the UK. Go live life in Iraq as a female for a few years and let us know how you feel about the presence of the troops after staying in more fundamental areas vs areas with a stronger troop presence. As I stated in the other thread, you're grasping now, much as quandolak was. Even more to the point... Who is going to stand up for the underdogs in that area? You haven't answered that. I haven't seen any so called peace loving Muslims speaking out against the genocide, nor have I seen them stepping up to the plate and going to bat for the masses who were being tortured, killed, and hunted down by Hussein's regime.

 

[Shimmer]

No he didn't.
Aid was so slow because it was a situation unlike any we had ever encountered, and by the way a LOT of white folk are still without aide, because they're white and therefore theoretically have more available resources at hand.
Celebrities don't fork out more than the government does, and if you believe that, you're not educating yourself properly about my country.
I'm not going to allow MY tax dollars to pay a third world countries debts. That's absolutely not anything I could ever see ANY one who works for their money allowing. It's easy for YOU to spend MY and MY family's tax dollars, as you're not a resident of my nation, I see.
AIDS? Sorry, I don't buy into the AIDS propoganda. And, as I said, I'm not about to vote to allow my money to go to another country's debts. That's ridiculous to expect any nation to do.

Regarding celebrities, again, they dont' fork over their own money (check your sources...) they solicit donations from other people.

 

[Lalli]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shimmer No he didn't. Aid was so slow because it was a situation unlike any we had ever encountered, and by the way a LOT of white folk are still without aide, because they're white and therefore theoretically have more available resources at hand. Celebrities don't fork out more than the government does, and if you believe that, you're not educating yourself properly about my country. I'm not going to allow MY tax dollars to pay a third world countries debts. That's absolutely not anything I could ever see ANY one who works for their money allowing. It's easy for YOU to spend MY and MY family's tax dollars, as you're not a resident of my nation, I see. AIDS? Sorry, I don't buy into the AIDS propoganda. And, as I said, I'm not about to vote to allow my money to go to another country's debts. That's ridiculous to expect any nation to do. Regarding celebrities, again, they dont' fork over their own money (check your sources...) they solicit donations from other people.

third world countries are in debt because of nations like america and britain, they pay so much interest back that they cant even make a better living. as for me spending your tax money i dont need to, i study and work hard for a living ive never been one 2 scrounge off others, yet you'd rather see your money spent on a pointless war in iraq

main reason was to find osama bin laden in AFGHANISTAN. why isnt he found? why is he being allowed to be treated in AMERICAN hospitals in places like Dubai. HE was the reason war started yet a single man couldnt be caught. tut

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lalli intentionally doesnt happen? ur trying to tell me a man is at "war" and wants to satisfy his sexual needs but cnt do so with men, you need to open you eyes love. it happens, whether you like it or not. you cant speak for the VAST majority of soldiers can you? i know for a fact life for women is hard there but americans arent making it easier are they. your talking as though they are god's gift to Iraq. as for so called peace talking muslims you need to look beyond american views. have you ever thought maybe no one wants anything to do with scum like saddam hence dont want to speak about anything he as done or whatever.

The intentionally doesn't happen was referencing the killing.
Regarding the rape, do you really know how much those guys masturbate? I do. A lot.
And, I also have on hand record account of how desperate iraqis get when out in the desert, as I personally have access to surveillance video of DIFFERENT MUSLIM MEN in different areas having sex with sheep. *thumbs up*
Yes, I can speak for a LOT of American Soldiers. I was one. My brothers are soldiers. My best friends are soldiers. My sistersinlaw are soldiers. My dad was a Marine. I have adopted three seperate COMPANIES during my short time as an adult so far, and not a single ONE of them has ever had one single sexual thought about an iraqi woman. Trust me. They'd rather sit in their portapot and yank for five minutes than have sex with an iraqi.
Americans ARE making life easier.
Five years ago, even INTIMATING a slur against the government there could lead severe retribution.
I'm sorry, being able to breath a bit easier and not worry about an IRAQI soldier raping my wife or kicking the shit out of my kids would definitely make my life easier.

 

[Lalli]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shimmer No he didn't. Aid was so slow because it was a situation unlike any we had ever encountered, and by the way a LOT of white folk are still without aide, because they're white and therefore theoretically have more available resources at hand. Celebrities don't fork out more than the government does, and if you believe that, you're not educating yourself properly about my country. I'm not going to allow MY tax dollars to pay a third world countries debts. That's absolutely not anything I could ever see ANY one who works for their money allowing. It's easy for YOU to spend MY and MY family's tax dollars, as you're not a resident of my nation, I see. AIDS? Sorry, I don't buy into the AIDS propoganda. And, as I said, I'm not about to vote to allow my money to go to another country's debts. That's ridiculous to expect any nation to do. Regarding celebrities, again, they dont' fork over their own money (check your sources...) they solicit donations from other people.

America regualary has stuff like floods tornados cyclones hurracaines, surely the greatest nation on earth could spare a few billion dollars and help those in need asap

 

[Shimmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lalli third world countries are in debt because of nations like america and britain, they pay so much interest back that they cant even make a better living. as for me spending your tax money i dont need to, i study and work hard for a living ive never been one 2 scrounge off others, yet you'd rather see your money spent on a pointless war in iraq main reason was to find osama bin laden in AFGHANISTAN. why isnt he found? why is he being allowed to be treated in AMERICAN hospitals in places like Dubai. HE was the reason war started yet a single man couldnt be caught. tut

You're putting words in my mouth again.
And you're grasping at straws.

ok, you know where bin laden is, that's what you're saying? he's in dubai? that's what you're saying?

 

[Lalli]

Hunni men all over the world shag sheeps, highlighting the word MUSLIM wont make your argument stronger, my application for the RAF in BRITAIN was successful and i got through, HOWEVER why would i want to side with a nation which is starting a baseless war, fact is american soldiers as well as iraqi militants are as bad as each other. women are raped killed everyday. men are tortured and abused by soldiers everyday, just recently to Pakistani Muslim men were shot on suspicion of being terrorists, wtfyo the police in the UK got down on its knees and apologized and offered a million pounds compensation. thats how stupid and narrow minded these people are, assuming all muslims are terrorists.


Quote:

Originally Posted by shimmer The intentionally doesn't happen was referencing the killing. Regarding the rape, do you really know how much those guys masturbate? I do. A lot. And, I also have on hand record account of how desperate iraqis get when out in the desert, as I personally have access to surveillance video of DIFFERENT MUSLIM MEN in different areas having sex with sheep. *thumbs up* Yes, I can speak for a LOT of American Soldiers. I was one. My brothers are soldiers. My best friends are soldiers. My sistersinlaw are soldiers. My dad was a Marine. I have adopted three seperate COMPANIES during my short time as an adult so far, and not a single ONE of them has ever had one single sexual thought about an iraqi woman. Trust me. They'd rather sit in their portapot and yank for five minutes than have sex with an iraqi. Americans ARE making life easier. Five years ago, even INTIMATING a slur against the government there could lead severe retribution. I'm sorry, being able to breath a bit easier and not worry about an IRAQI soldier raping my wife or kicking the shit out of my kids would definitely make my life easier.

 

[Lalli]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shimmer You're putting words in my mouth again. And you're grasping at straws. ok, you know where bin laden is, that's what you're saying? he's in dubai? that's what you're saying?

is bin laden my dad? i cudnt give a fck im simply repeating what is said on the news and on so called american sites boycotting against muslims, how hard is it to find one man, im not putting no words in ur mouth, you remind me of a typical american person. all hail america thats what its all about, you need to see beyond muslims mass murder and think about people who ACTUALLY need help