Frustrations With MAC

[MelodyKat]

And about the samples. lol. So here's how I figure it. Yes you can get your makeup done anywhere but there is a certain expectation that goes with makeup at MAC....right? So here is what I do.....it doesnt matter if you spend $14 on a lipgloss or $200 on new stuff. It depends on the interaction. If someone sounds iffy about a foundation then i totally make them a sample. If someone asks about a certain product...ill make them a sample. But if you ask "Well I bought $xxx so i should get free stuff" well ill give you 1 sample. That make sense?

Let me explain. We get sample jars sent to the counter. But not that many. So as an artist explaining a product I would rather sample to someone who is trying to find that "right" product or wanting to try something new. They are genuinely wanting to know about the product. Then give someone a bunch of samples just because the feel they are owed them. So if someone comes in and wants samples of all the piggies we got i will give them 1. If someone comes in once a week for the same foundation sample EVERY WEEK i will not give them one.

I hope that makes sense. Not trying to get anyone angry.....but I also dont like to get taken advantage of as an artist.

 

[erine1881]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lara This is more to do with people who show up for appointments late, or who go over the 30 minute limit by talking on the phone, chatting to the person next to them, using the MA as a confessional, insisting the artist try four or five different lips, push for an eyes/lips/cheeks quick make-over to turn into an hour full-face appointment, etc etc etc.

my point exactly!

Quote:

Originally Posted by lara Make-up appointments are organised and timely, it's the human element that makes these things drag out. Until the day comes where we can say, 'lady, will you just freakin' shut up for ten minutes so I can get you out of here on time!', appointments will always go over.

can that day be tmrw pleeeeeease?!?!

 

[chronic]

Lol, I read this a few times in this thread already but it irritates me when I ask for a product by name and the MA has no idea what I'm talking about. Or when I say MSF and they get confused. You'd think they'd use that themselves, instead of saying Mineral Skin Finish everytime.

 

[COBI]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lah_knee and like wolfsong said, its terrible business to allow people who spend a lot to get away with certain things just because they are more "profitable" than the average customer. people go on and on here about how they hate how some artists treat certain customers better than others because of how they look or if they are spending a lot. it shouldnt be that way.

I guess this for me depends on what it is they are "getting away with". I haven't seen personally anyone showing some egregious accommodations being made. My personal example is pan-less pots. When I read for the first time here on specktra that pan-less pots were a no-no, my immediate reaction was "for what I spend, I wouldn't want to be hassled about this." ne reason being that the MAs had told me about depotting and then "bring those empties right back in" (I do put the plastic tray back in the pot.) That being said, it was a defensive response, and it was not something I knew or asked the store to make concessions for me. Perhaps they are bending the rules because I am a good customer, but they've never told me. I can't imagine *asking* them to bend any rules. In the "MAC FAQ: B2M", someone mentions that they sent depots without pans in to MAC by mail and received their B2M without issue. So, there is still a question for me about what is right, but if my FS doesn't have a problem with my B2M as is, then neither do I.

I absolutely agree that no one should be treated like a lesser customer (unless, of course, they are rude and/or abusive towards staff or other customers); however, have you honestly never gone above and beyond for someone who comes in and buys often? Would you have gone the same above and beyond for someone who had never come in before or who comes in and only evers wants samples? From a purely business (not CS) POV, it is "terrible" business to expend the same energy on someone who comes in constantly and never buys when you have buying clients waiting.

I have seen and heard customers spend over 30 minutes with an MA trying to find the right shade and everything was "too this" or "too that" only to walk out empty-handed mumbling to their friend "I would never spend that much on lipstick"; why spend all that time when one of their first questions was price so they knew exactly how much it was before they took the MAs time. When this person comes in doing this every few weeks, don't you at some point change the service (i.e. not give them as much time)? If not, I would argue that is terrible business because while you are giving energy/attention to a known non-buyer, there are customers who are coming in and possibly not buying because no one is available to help them.

Whether one realizes it or not, you can automatically provide better service when you know someone and their buying habits. They come in, and you know immediately which new shades or products are going to interest them. Why? Because they spend a lot. It has allowed you to understand their likes and dislikes. It has allowed you to know what their skin and makeups problems and issues are. You can follow-up on recent purchases, and you can build on them. If someone doesn't buy much, you can not possibly provide this level of customized service; does that mean that you shouldn't for regulars?

It's kind of interesting because in other threads, MAs get mad/frustrated when people get their makeup done and don't buy anything. Yet, here the majority would seem to imply that everyone should be treated the same whether they buy or not.

Perhaps some of the difference of opinions here is simply in interpretation of how each of us are defining "concessions" for customers.

 

[darkishstar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beauty Mark Besides the numerous LE items and color stories, I'm kind of frustrated that B2M isn't better advertised. I don't think I would've known about it had I not joined Specktra. I know it's going to involve a loss of profits from MAC (perhaps not, because I'd probably buy something as well get my B2M), but I think recycling is so important.

I totally agree with the B2M program thing. After going to my MAC freestanding store for about... 5 times, I was finally told about the B2M program. This doesn't really irritate me, but I think if recycling is really important, it should be advertised more. And I don't think it's much a loss of profit if the old containers are being recycled so that more products can be made and sold, rather than using new material to make new packaging every time.

EDIT: Thanks to erine1881: the old containers are recycled to be made into other things not make-up packaging.

 

[darkishstar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lara This is more to do with people who show up for appointments late, or who go over the 30 minute limit by talking on the phone, chatting to the person next to them, using the MA as a confessional, insisting the artist try four or five different lips, push for an eyes/lips/cheeks quick make-over to turn into an hour full-face appointment, etc etc etc. Make-up appointments are organised and timely, it's the human element that makes these things drag out. Until the day comes where we can say, 'lady, will you just freakin' shut up for ten minutes so I can get you out of here on time!', appointments will always go over.

This is very true because I've seen this happen when I went in for Prom make-up this year in June. I just want to add a little to your response.

I think it's often the customer that does slow down appointments, but I also think sometimes it has to do with the MUA's perfectionist tendencies? When I went in, I expected to be done in half an hour, but for some reason my skin was acting up and making it difficult for make-up application.. so the MUA redid my eye about.. 3 times, so she took almost an hour on me because she kept insisting it didn't look nice though I didn't see what the problem was at all. I didn't blame her though (because I guess Asian eyes might be difficult to do make-up on? And my lids were really dry for some reason too...) she did an awesome job, so I was really happy to purchase my products from her and be on my way.

So I think oftentimes unexpected issues like this arise as well that can slow down the appointments as well.

 

[wolfsong]

Quote:

Originally Posted by COBI I guess this for me depends on what it is they are "getting away with". I haven't seen personally anyone showing some egregious accommodations being made. My personal example is pan-less pots. When I read for the first time here on specktra that pan-less pots were a no-no, my immediate reaction was "for what I spend, I wouldn't want to be hassled about this." ne reason being that the MAs had told me about depotting and then "bring those empties right back in" (I do put the plastic tray back in the pot.) That being said, it was a defensive response, and it was not something I knew or asked the store to make concessions for me. Perhaps they are bending the rules because I am a good customer, but they've never told me. I can't imagine *asking* them to bend any rules. In the "MAC FAQ: B2M", someone mentions that they sent depots without pans in to MAC by mail and received their B2M without issue. So, there is still a question for me about what is right, but if my FS doesn't have a problem with my B2M as is, then neither do I. I absolutely agree that no one should be treated like a lesser customer (unless, of course, they are rude and/or abusive towards staff or other customers); however, have you honestly never gone above and beyond for someone who comes in and buys often? Would you have gone the same above and beyond for someone who had never come in before or who comes in and only evers wants samples? From a purely business (not CS) POV, it is "terrible" business to expend the same energy on someone who comes in constantly and never buys when you have buying clients waiting. I have seen and heard customers spend over 30 minutes with an MA trying to find the right shade and everything was "too this" or "too that" only to walk out empty-handed mumbling to their friend "I would never spend that much on lipstick"; why spend all that time when one of their first questions was price so they knew exactly how much it was before they took the MAs time. When this person comes in doing this every few weeks, don't you at some point change the service (i.e. not give them as much time)? If not, I would argue that is terrible business because while you are giving energy/attention to a known non-buyer, there are customers who are coming in and possibly not buying because no one is available to help them. Whether one realizes it or not, you can automatically provide better service when you know someone and their buying habits. They come in, and you know immediately which new shades or products are going to interest them. Why? Because they spend a lot. It has allowed you to understand their likes and dislikes. It has allowed you to know what their skin and makeups problems and issues are. You can follow-up on recent purchases, and you can build on them. If someone doesn't buy much, you can not possibly provide this level of customized service; does that mean that you shouldn't for regulars? It's kind of interesting because in other threads, MAs get mad/frustrated when people get their makeup done and don't buy anything. Yet, here the majority would seem to imply that everyone should be treated the same whether they buy or not. Perhaps some of the difference of opinions here is simply in interpretation of how each of us are defining "concessions" for customers.

I see where you are getting at about the 'bad non-customer' dealio, admittedly i didnt think about these types of non-customers (ie those that are well known for NEVER buying but taking samples, stealing testers/products and wasting time when they either dont buy or buy and take back for refunds once used for a bit) when i wrote that.

I was referring to better treatment for those that spend a lot compared to those that come in for one or two items at a time - just because someone may not be able to afford big hauls, or may have a reason why they dont want to spend X amount on makeup, doesnt mean they do not deserve the same treatment as those that make big purchases. To me giving 'special treatment' to those that spend is a trait of a bad MA - and im not talking about the fact that their MA may have more knowledge of a customer because of these hauls, as that doesnt come into the B2M or manners issue (and customer time may be shortened by the MA knowing them, but it could also be the same as a new customer because of showing/explaining products/collections that they think they'll like - as you rightly stated).

How does the MA know that a person is new to MAC and just finding their feet/developing their makeup collection slowly to begin with to see how they like the brand, or that they will only be the type of customer that buys little product? They dont. And even if the latter was the case, is it right for them to hold it against that customer/ treat them differently because of it? Certainly not IMO.

 

[Beauty Mark]

Quote:

Let me explain. We get sample jars sent to the counter. But not that many. So as an artist explaining a product I would rather sample to someone who is trying to find that "right" product or wanting to try something new. They are genuinely wanting to know about the product. Then give someone a bunch of samples just because the feel they are owed them. So if someone comes in and wants samples of all the piggies we got i will give them 1. If someone comes in once a week for the same foundation sample EVERY WEEK i will not give them one.

I think MAC would benefit from a program like Sephora set up where you get so many "points" for spending so much money and then you get exclusive samples.

 

[erine1881]

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkishstar I totally agree with the B2M program thing. After going to my MAC freestanding store for about... 5 times, I was finally told about the B2M program. This doesn't really irritate me, but I think if recycling is really important, it should be advertised more. And I don't think it's much a loss of profit if the old containers are being recycled so that more products can be made and sold, rather than using new material to make new packaging every time.

when mac recycles the B2M, they don't use the stuff to make new makeup packaging. they recycle it to make park benches, staplers, etc.

 

[alien21xx]

My one frustration:
I have quite often been ignored at MAC counters and FS where I live, even when there are no customers and the MA's aren't really doing anything.

It's more of a problem with where I am, I guess. I just find that the customer service of the MAs in my area really leaves a lot to be desired (i.e., apart from ignoring me, they always give me bored stares when I ask questions about products.) Most of the time, I just test the product on the back of my hand, clean up (myself and the product I tested), buy and be off because I find the MAs here quite off-putting. I guess it's because most of them know me? I'm at a MAC counter/FS almost every week and sometimes I get the feeling that MAs look at me and think "Oh it's her again, that crazy lady who buys half the store every time she's here; she doesn't need any help from me."

BUT I don't think this is caused at all by MAC. It's probably more a cultural thing here because I don't get this treatment when I go to MAC stores in other countries.

And I've learned to just accept this and still try to be nice to the MAs, especially for those enthusiastic ones that I encounter. They really make my shopping experience wonderful.

 

[VeronikaJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ♥MiCHiE♥ The only gripe I have with MAC is that they charge for a PRO discount that could be free.

It's just like a Costco membership. You can't expect such great prices (meaning a 30-40% discount) without some sort of fee. And it's $35 annually, it more than makes up for itself within one stop at the store.

 

[MiCHiE]

Well, just like Niki pointed out, the classes alone are worth it. I had so mush fun at a Nordstrom event in TX. But, New Orleans didn't even have a freestanding store until 2006. I don't know what kind of classes or promos were/are held at the counters here, if any.

 

[jessicalovesmac]

I need more pro pans and they're sold out. They're also sold out of a bunch of basics like bare study paint pot. I waited on hold for 20 minutes to find out that most of what I wanted was unavailable. WTH?

 

[jessicalovesmac]

Sorry I posted the same thing twice by mistake. Edited to reflect.

 

[MACGoddess]

Quote:

Originally Posted by purrtykitty I agree. I've been told that by my MAC Counter, too and it was kinda frustrating. Along the same lines...if MAC Stores allow B2M items to include shadows and lip glasses and not just lipsticks, then why not the counters, too? That doesn't make too much sense to me.

It isn't just whimsy that lets you claim other things than a l/s for your b2m's at a store, you must have a MAC Addict profile in the computer system with your name, address and e-mail in it. If you have none of those or do not wish to enter into the system, you do not make the expanded program available to you. You still would get only a l/s at a store...

 

[MACGoddess]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Love Always Ivy i agree! you work at MAC. i KNOW you know about collections coming out before they come out. tell me why i went in to pick up some paint pots when they came out with painterly and the MA looked at me like i made it all up. same thing happened when i went to ask about the lipsticks from mcqueen. c'mon. why do i know more about your product than you? give me your job please.

You have to remember, while everyone at MAC is an artist and we do love to play with new things, not always do we remember the 45 different names of product that will be coming out in the next 3 months when we go to update... You may also be encountering a freelance artist working there for the day and they will have no idea what you may be talking about since they did not go to MAC Updates, or even a newly hired artist or one having a brain fart at the moment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by panther27 Yeah that really bothers the hell out of me why restrict where certain things go?

While you and 15 other people in your area might want a certain collection to come to your counter, there may be no other person in the area that will respond to it, you know? Think McQueen, SUPER bright shadows and paint pots along with lips and face products; it was a very fashion forward collection, very backstage trendy...a small town with only one MAC counter won't really be the place to release that collection. People may be overwhelmed by it bc it is so intense and the launch would suffer bc of it. They try to launch products where they will be most fitting bc it is a business, it costs them a lot of $$ to ship these products but also they lose more $$ if they sit in the drawers for 6 mos only to be sent to a CCO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkishstar I guess then for me it would just be better to just have fewer LE collections then. I forgot that there needs to be room to put the permanent collection as well! Yeah, it would cost too much, but I guess my issue with the samples then is how they're made from the ones on display? (Or maybe that's just from the freestanding store I go to?) I'm a germ freak, so I guess that's why I don't like why there's no pre-packaged ones. Maybe they should use a new one and set that one aside specifically for samples? I dunno, I guess it doesn't bother me too much, it's just a tiny issue after all. I still love MAC to death. Thanks at least for opening my eyes up to some issues. I wouldn't know because I don't work at any MAC counters or stores.

At MAC we are very germ conscious and that is the whole reason why we are constantly asking if you need help, or we have all these tester wands and brushes etc. We have been trained on how to correctly sanitize and use products to keep them clean and everyone else safe from bacteria and germs. I would not be nervous to use a product at the counter or to accept a sample from said product if I were you. I often use the products if I need to touch up during a break or put my makeup on before my shift etc, without a problem and for almost 2 yrs. Besides, you would probably let us color match you with that same foundation so what is the big deal with taking a sample of it, both ways it ends up on your face anyway... ;-)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chronic Lol, I read this a few times in this thread already but it irritates me when I ask for a product by name and the MA has no idea what I'm talking about. Or when I say MSF and they get confused. You'd think they'd use that themselves, instead of saying Mineral Skin Finish everytime.

If we used the shortened form of MSF all the time, then customers not familiar with the product would have no idea what we were talking about. It makes more sense to just say Mineralize Skinfinish bc not only is that the product name, but it allows us to explain the product better to someone who is unfamiliar with it. If someone was trying to tell me about something that was new to me and used a bunch of letters instead of the name of the product I would feel a little confused and might not really get what they were talking about... Did that make sense?

 

[purrtykitty]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MACGoddess It isn't just whimsy that lets you claim other things than a l/s for your b2m's at a store, you must have a MAC Addict profile in the computer system with your name, address and e-mail in it. If you have none of those or do not wish to enter into the system, you do not make the expanded program available to you. You still would get only a l/s at a store...

That may be true in your store, but I was able to get a lipglass and eyeshadow along with a lipstick for B2M in the KC MAC store and I'm not in the computer system because there is no MAC store where I live, only a counter.

 

[MACGoddess]

Quote:

Originally Posted by purrtykitty That may be true in your store, but I was able to get a lipglass and eyeshadow along with a lipstick for B2M in the KC MAC store and I'm not in the computer system because there is no MAC store where I live, only a counter.

It is true regardless of what store it is or where... They more than likely entered you into the computer system when you checked out at the KC MAC Store that you visited. If they did not, then they violated policy and actually can get in quite a bit of trouble.

There is no rule saying that if you are B2Ming and you don't have a profile in the computer when you go to check out, that we can't ADD you to the computer system and then apply your B2M in accordance with company policy.

 

[purrtykitty]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MACGoddess It is true regardless of what store it is or where... They more than likely entered you into the computer system when you checked out at the KC MAC Store that you visited. If they did not, then they violated policy and actually can get in quite a bit of trouble. There is no rule saying that if you are B2Ming and you don't have a profile in the computer when you go to check out, that we can't ADD you to the computer system and then apply your B2M in accordance with company policy.

Hmm, maybe that's what they did. I only gave them my name and then I told them that there was no store in MAC, so they didn't ask for any address or e-mail info. I guess they only needed my name.

 

[MACGoddess]

Quote:

Originally Posted by purrtykitty Hmm, maybe that's what they did. I only gave them my name and then I told them that there was no store in MAC, so they didn't ask for any address or e-mail info. I guess they only needed my name.

If you gave them no other info besides your name and they gave you the expanded stuff then they went against the rules.

That is the whole point of the expansion thing at the stores is to build up the computer system so that we have a customer base to contact for special events and exclusive parties. The computer is where they get the list of people we send the random invites to.