Split - Barbie: race issues, image issues

Indigowaters

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBadGirl
Let's remember that little girls don't look at those dolls and see 'sluts' or 'hookers'- that's an adults way of thinking. They see a cute doll that's really popular with all their friends. There are many Bratz that are fully covered and don't wear thongs- but in debates like this they don't get mentioned. IGN listened to some complaints and have made a new line of Bratz for the younger set. They all wear child clothing and their features are toned down. So no one is forcing parents to buy the kind of Bratz pictured above.

Thank you. I figured that's what was happening so I didn't feel like arguing anymore. Especially with people who are Barbie loyalists. It's just a toy to me. And most of the time children are pulling the clothes on and off, dressing and undressing them.
 

mzcelaneous

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBadGirl
Personally nothing could be better for me than MAC and Hello Kitty- but that won't happen.
weeping.gif


OMG...I'd be in heaven. HEAVEN I tell you
eyelove.gif


Quote:
Originally Posted by glittergoddess27
Hmm thats funny,.. I have a Spanish barbie,.. I have an egyptian barbie,.. I also have a brazilian one too?? Barbie is not necessarily a WASP anymore? If I am grasping the meaning of that correctly? Anyway,.. I think it would be a cute collection. And if they excluded Barbie wouldn't that be against their embracement of all ages, sexes, races?? That door swings both ways.

True that, true that. My daughter has a Korean Princess Barbie, Filipino Barbie, Spanish Barbie, & African princess Barbie.

And with the Bratz dolls, it's not so much their face structure, just their removable shoe-attached feet that gives me the heebee-jeebees. Ew! Not to mention their caked-on make-up *shudders*
 

DOLLface

Well-known member
I can't wait to see this, mostly because Barbies used to be my favorite thing in the ENTIRE WORLD. All my Barbie stuff is still kept under my bed because there's no other place for it, lol. It would be soo cool if they did something with Jem.

I must agree about Bratz, they look skanky IMO. I owned only one and it always bothered me that they didn't have feet when you took their shoes off, and those big heads were sorta creepy.
 

BadBadGirl

Well-known member
OMG! Black with pink glitter...I'd be broke.

I was thinking to myself 'Why are so many condemning the product before it's even seen?' Anyway, most it will probably change by the time the collection is released.
cutey.gif
 

prinzessin784

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starbright211
Never write off a collection you haven't seen in person... I have made up my mind about collections several times, just seeing the colors posted here or on MAC.com, but when I get to the counter, it's ALWAYS a different story.
There may be some really beautiful colors that look great on all of us, no matter how we feel about Barbie or Bratz.
I am hoping for some pink glittery packaging, or maybe black, but with pink glitter in it!!! <3


So true!! Especially this early in the game! I can't see MAC doing anything crazy like making the packaging hot pink plastic with Barbie's face on it or anything haha. I trust them to put out good products!
 

prinzessin784

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katial8r
Ok, I'm coming out of the closet......
tong.gif
opout:

I am a BARBIE LOVER!
th_wink3.gif


No, seriously I am. Always have and always will be. To me Barbie was PERFECT. So what? What about most of the movie/tv stars out there? Don't they look perfect too? So, what are we going to do? Start boycotting VIVA GLAM and ICON as well?
rofl.gif
Yeah, right!



True dat! haha! But seriously, isn't Barbie THE BIGGEST fashion icon ever? Let's give her props where they are due!!
 

ladybugz07

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBadGirl
Personally nothing could be better for me than MAC and Hello Kitty- but that won't happen.
weeping.gif


OH My Gawd!!! I would completely freak out... I would need at least one of everything! :p
 

antirazor

Well-known member
mm. as a feminist I have to agree that both barbie and bratz are pretty screwed. yes. it's just a toy. and yes. parents also play a role in their children's values. but it is also a toy that is popular with all of a child's friends, as was mentioned. and it is also true that young children do not see sluts and hoes, as was mentioned as well.

so the way I see it is that all of a child's friends love this doll because it's so pretty and the children do not see it as slutty so they idolize it. their parents have a say, but all of their friends have it and they beg and plead and whine. even if their parents don't let them play with it, they still covet it.

even without the doll, children are surrounded by images of tall, thin, leggy, busty, sexual, scantily clad women their entire lives. movie stars. dolls. cartoons. music videos. even characters in books. if anyone has seen mean girls, the scene where they go to Regina's house for the first time and her little sister is dancing in front of the TV was kind of sad to everyone, I think. it becomes programmed into us and that is what I disagree with. because so few people fit that model. [and even if a lot of people did, I think we should be free to make our own judgments of beauty. not just believe something is pretty because it's the only thing we've seen our entire lives.] then when we don't grow into long legs, huge breasts, and small frames we feel disappointed. at least I know I still do occasionally.

if you're interested read the beauty myth by naomi wolf.

I'm not anti-barbie at all. I loved her as a child. and I do really appreciate mattel expanding her racial and occupational options. It was a really important thing to happen. I agree that bratz offends me a lot more, as a feminist, than barbie does. because while barbie supports aesthetic stereotypes she is at least a careerwoman, as was mentioned before. But even so, barbie and bratz are the symptoms, not the disease. and our social standards of beauty and the pressure that it puts on women is what needs to change. the rest will follow naturally. [love the current dove ad campaign, if you couldn't guess.] all of this blahblahblah was just to explain why barbie is controversial to a feminist mind. since someone said they didn't see what the big deal was.

in response to why feminists wear makeup. as a feminist and an artist, I like makeup for the individuality aspect. It's nice to look pretty as well. I would be a liar if I said being all dolled up didn't give me a little self-esteem boost. but I don't feel the need to wear makeup all the time. I think I'm rather pretty without it as well. i see it as, feminists are against the idea of "needing" makeup. I don't feel any woman needs makeup. but it's fun. i like buying it. i like wearing it. and I wouldn't say I'm an exception because Kathleen Hannah wears makeup and she is quite possibly one of the most well-known feminists out there. and obviously, there are other feminists registered here on specktra. [I also want to add that this statement was probably the only thing said in this thread to genuinely make me feel angry. stereotyping is exactly what feminism is against.]

it goes both ways with boys and gi joes and the way manliness is portrayed. it puts the same unattainable [not to mention violent and undesirable] ideal and pressure to reach it on men. but I won't go into that. it isn't the topic at hand and I've rambled enough as is. XD if anyone actually reads all of this.

that being said! I think I am excited to see this collection. I thought the disney TLCs were adorable and I think this will be cute too. I do hope her face isn't all over it though. because I feel like that would just look tacky. but since they've made sure to say that it is targeted for adults, I'm pretty sure that won't happen. While a woman putting on lip conditioner with the little fish from pinocchio is cute. a woman pulling out a compact with barbie on it would seem pretty ridiculous to me.
 

gummybug

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by enka
I don't see both companies fitting together.
MAC is about "all ages, all sexes all races" and Barbie is a WASP, so how this will ever work together?

Maybe that's because, I'm a 32 year old MAC loving feminist and a Barbie hater ?


If MAC is for all, why wouldn't they be for WASPs as well? They's people too. lol.
smiles.gif
 

Ada

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by antirazor
mm. as a feminist I have to agree that both barbie and bratz are pretty screwed. yes. it's just a toy. and yes. parents also play a role in their children's values. but it is also a toy that is popular with all of a child's friends, as was mentioned. and it is also true that young children do not see sluts and hoes, as was mentioned as well.

so the way I see it is that all of a child's friends love this doll because it's so pretty and the children do not see it as slutty so they idolize it. their parents have a say, but all of their friends have it and they beg and plead and whine. even if their parents don't let them play with it, they still covet it.

even without the doll, children are surrounded by images of tall, thin, leggy, busty, sexual, scantily clad women their entire lives. movie stars. dolls. cartoons. music videos. even characters in books. if anyone has seen mean girls, the scene where they go to Regina's house for the first time and her little sister is dancing in front of the TV was kind of sad to everyone, I think. it becomes programmed into us and that is what I disagree with. because so few people fit that model. [and even if a lot of people did, I think we should be free to make our own judgments of beauty. not just believe something is pretty because it's the only thing we've seen our entire lives.] then when we don't grow into long legs, huge breasts, and small frames we feel disappointed. at least I know I still do occasionally.

if you're interested read the beauty myth by naomi wolf.

I'm not anti-barbie at all. I loved her as a child. and I do really appreciate mattel expanding her racial and occupational options. It was a really important thing to happen. I agree that bratz offends me a lot more, as a feminist, than barbie does. because while barbie supports aesthetic stereotypes she is at least a careerwoman, as was mentioned before. But even so, barbie and bratz are the symptoms, not the disease. and our social standards of beauty and the pressure that it puts on women is what needs to change. the rest will follow naturally. [love the current dove ad campaign, if you couldn't guess.] all of this blahblahblah was just to explain why barbie is controversial to a feminist mind. since someone said they didn't see what the big deal was.

in response to why feminists wear makeup. as a feminist and an artist, I like makeup for the individuality aspect. It's nice to look pretty as well. I would be a liar if I said being all dolled up didn't give me a little self-esteem boost. but I don't feel the need to wear makeup all the time. I think I'm rather pretty without it as well. i see it as, feminists are against the idea of "needing" makeup. I don't feel any woman needs makeup. but it's fun. i like buying it. i like wearing it. and I wouldn't say I'm an exception because Kathleen Hannah wears makeup and she is quite possibly one of the most well-known feminists out there. and obviously, there are other feminists registered here on specktra.

it goes both ways with boys and gi joes and the way manliness is portrayed. it puts the same unattainable [not to mention violent and undesirable] ideal and pressure to reach it on men. but I won't go into that. it isn't the topic at hand and I've rambled enough as is. XD if anyone actually reads all of this.



Very well said and I agree with you 100%!
 

macjunkieTURKEY

Well-known member
i love barbies and as a child i had lots of them. and i never dreamed of being like one of them when i grew up. i always idolised the fiction characters of the books i read never with barbies. imo barbies are judged wrongfully. more than women boosting feminity, barbies are dolls that improving little girls' imagination because every girl makes up stories with them on them. and i never thought of them being racist maybe this is because i live in turkey and there is no racism here. but then again how can a doll make children racist and hussy?
 

antirazor

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by macjunkieTURKEY
i love barbies and as a child i had lots of them. and i never dreamed of being like one of them when i grew up. i always idolised the fiction characters of the books i read never with barbies. imo barbies are judged wrongfully. more than women boosting feminity, barbies are dolls that improving little girls' imagination because every girl makes up stories with them on them. and i never thought of them being racist maybe this is because i live in turkey and there is no racism here. but then again how can a doll make children racist and hussy?

until rather recently only white women were depicted as beautiful. the first black model was Beverly Peele in the 80s. 1980 is also the same year that mattel introduced the first black barbie. ever. the 80s as in not even 3 decades ago. [side note: mac was pretty much on the cutting edge of this, starting up in 84 with the motto: "all races, all sexes, all ages."
winks.gif
] Disney did not make a cartoon movie with a non-white protagonist (excluding the jungle book in 1967) until Aladdin came out in 1992 and they have yet to make an animated movie where the protagonist is black. it doesn't make girls racist or hussy but if you were a little girl who happened to be anything but white, and all the images of beauty displayed to you through the media were white women, it wouldn't be surprising that you might feel like your darker skin or less-than-aryan features were ugly. which seems pretty shitty to me. we've come a long way in a short period of time as far as that is concerned, but its where the comment about racism and wasp came from. I assume. since I didn't make the comment I can't rightly say. but it would be my take on it.

edit\\ XD oh, gosh. I do love a good, intelligently argued, controversy. I just want to say again that I am excited for this collection. I can't wait to see what they do with it, but I understand why a lot of people are feeling resistant.
 

docmaria

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by macjunkieTURKEY
maybe this is because i live in turkey and there is no racism here.

What an odd statement. I assure you that there is racism in Turkey as there is in every country.
 

aziza

Well-known member
maybe this is because i live in turkey and there is no racism here
Hahaha! This cracked me up! Well at one point there was a lot of it! Ever heard of the Armenian Genocide?

Let them know the truth antirazor!!!! I worked @ Disney World and I always said that if I wanted to audition for a role as a heroine in the park, I couldn't do it! None of Disney female leads are black! But this cracks me up: my dance teacher was a white woman who played Jasmine at the Magic Kingdom...so she applied makeup to mimic the darker skin of an Arab woman. Let me try that...I would get laughed at if I put on "whiteface."

As far as the M.A.C Barbie thing...I'm all for it! Pink looks really good on me.
 

lemurian

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by docmaria
What an odd statement. I assure you that there is racism in Turkey as there is in every country.

I'm sure she didn't mean to offend. Turkey has a very diverse population, though there is no equivalent to America's black and white race relations. Or white and hispanic, or white and whichever. Furthermore, Turks are often the victims of prejudice in many European countries. I don't think she was being insensitive, just voicing an opinion from her unique perspective
smiles.gif
 

laa_cat

Well-known member
Even in Hong Kong Disneyland they hire white people to play most of the Disney protagonists, except Mulan since she's "naturally" Chinese. Regarding tall white woman as the beauty standard, this is so true in the world. Even in Asia, asian features are not very much appreciated. We look for features that mimic white people's feature, tall, deeper and bigger eyes, crease, fair skin... but yet I think the world is getting more open and open towards the standard of beauty.

Back to makeup...

I personally don't like the MAC, Barbie collaboration. It's not about the color but just that I don't like the idea of "toy makeup"... and Barbie's image doesn't fit into MAC's image very well...
 

asnbrb

Well-known member
hahaha! Memories of Disney World. SumtingSweet, I was told straight out that if I auditioned for Mulan that I would get it right off BECAUSE I was Asian. When I was working there, the Mulans were white and Hispanic. I didn't audition because I didn't want to work there any longer, but still... and man, am I getting this topic off course.
 

GalleyGirl

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by laa_cat
and Barbie's image doesn't fit into MAC's image very well...

As someone mentioned before, all ages, races and colors (and presumably, styles). Just because they are doing a Barbie collection one month doesn't mean they won't come up with something antithetical to her the other. MAC is all about variety.
 

starnoir

New member
Quote:
Originally Posted by antirazor
until rather recently only white women were depicted as beautiful. the first black model was Beverly Peele in the 80s. 1980 is also the same year that mattel introduced the first black barbie. ever. the 80s as in not even 3 decades ago. [side note: mac was pretty much on the cutting edge of this, starting up in 84 with the motto: "all races, all sexes, all ages."
winks.gif
] Disney did not make a cartoon movie with a non-white protagonist (excluding the jungle book in 1967) until Aladdin came out in 1992 and they have yet to make an animated movie where the protagonist is black. it doesn't make girls racist or hussy but if you were a little girl who happened to be anything but white, and all the images of beauty displayed to you through the media were white women, it wouldn't be surprising that you might feel like your darker skin or less-than-aryan features were ugly. which seems pretty shitty to me. we've come a long way in a short period of time as far as that is concerned, but its where the comment about racism and wasp came from. I assume. since I didn't make the comment I can't rightly say. but it would be my take on it.

edit\\ XD oh, gosh. I do love a good, intelligently argued, controversy. I just want to say again that I am excited for this collection. I can't wait to see what they do with it, but I understand why a lot of people are feeling resistant.


you know thats so true im not white, im bangladeshi, and ive always felt that my darker skin makes me not as pretty..

well i mean it was worse when i was younger.. nnow that im 23 its better. but i cant say that its totally gone
 
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