The war in Iraq (split from WHO is Jesus?)

Shimmer

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lalli
no offence yeh i have family in the army, RAF, Marines in AMERICA and britain and pakistani, not my fault you take comments personally, there was no need for the war, thats all im saying, if you take it personally thats your problem not mine. my intentions are not to hurt or disrespect anyone but i dont see how the war is justifed

Your age and lack of experience in life is showing.


No, I don't want us over there.


We are.

Too late to change that.

You refuse to see that walking out of the situation now would leave the situation open to CRUMBLING and having someone worse than Hussein ever thought about being master his way into power.
 

Lalli

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by pumpkincat210
It isn't about oil. Iraq's oil production is very slow at this point and they are using the money for rebuilding Iraq.
Quit with the America bashing, i'm seriously offended by your posts.


if your offended dont read!! im not offending anyone, im not american bashing, i dont see why because of a small group muslims in this thread included are made out to be the root of evil, i dont want the troops there, why should innocent soldiers die for a war which is between two islamic sects, they need to deal with it
 

Lalli

Well-known member
you learn something everyday just because my lack of age or experience or whatever is not enough does not mean im not entitled to opinions. its not too late. if the governments used thier brains troops could be out

Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmer
Your age and lack of experience in life is showing.


No, I don't want us over there.


We are.

Too late to change that.

You refuse to see that walking out of the situation now would leave the situation open to CRUMBLING and having someone worse than Hussein ever thought about being master his way into power.

 

Lalli

Well-known member
there are troops out there who dont want to be there but because of the governments they have no choice, innocent soldiers are killed everyday, what gets to me is that their interference causes more aggro in a country like iraq which in turn causes more "Jihad" suicide attacks and more people suffer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Designergirl9
This is all super interesting to me. My husband is a United States marine. I know some people hate us because of it. We live on a military base..we see our friends come and go. We have been to dedications for marines who have been killed from my husband's unit, we know people who have recieved the purple heart and so on.

It's very hard to generalize all the american troops as being one thing.
Are there bad people in the United States military..you bet! it's just like any other segment of society.
There are also some very good people.

What offends me is that alot of people got into the military before the Iraq war even happened..some military members dont even agree totally with what they are doing...they have to do it though. It's not like you can just be like hey I quit today.

It's a lot more complex then alot of the generalizations people make...just remember that just because you don't agree with something doesn't mean that someone else's family gets the liberty to feel differently about it because they have to support their family..regardless of whether they agree with the situation.

 

pumpkincat210

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lalli
if your offended dont read!! im not offending anyone, im not american bashing, i dont see why because of a small group muslims in this thread included are made out to be the root of evil, i dont want the troops there, why should innocent soldiers die for a war which is between two islamic sects, they need to deal with it

I had no idea you were muslim. I don't care. By reading your posts I can see that you haven't considered all points of view and you are seriously misinformed!
 

Lalli

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by pumpkincat210
I had no idea you were muslim. I don't care. By reading your posts I can see that you haven't considered all points of view and you are seriously misinformed!


i HAVE considered all view points only for specifically shimmer to attack what i say, just because i think the troops have no right to be in Iraq doesnt mean i am seriously misinformed
 

Shimmer

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lalli
if your offended dont read!! im not offending anyone, im not american bashing, i dont see why because of a small group muslims in this thread included are made out to be the root of evil, i dont want the troops there, why should innocent soldiers die for a war which is between two islamic sects, they need to deal with it

See, this is why I really wish that region was nothing but kitty litter.



The Islamic sects weren't dealing with it Lalli.
They weren't handling the problem.
They were killing each other to no end.


Is that okay with you?
Is that alright with you?
Is that fine with you?


OF COURSE IT IS. YOU DON'T LIVE THERE! You aren't the one who has to worry about carbombs, nor do you have to worry about IEDs or EFPs blasting a hole in your body or home, nor do you have to worry about sewage flowing through your streets. You don't have to worry about where your next meal is coming from of if you're going to have reliable electricity.
You don't have to worry about the wind blowing up a bit and showing your ankle and being caned.
You don't have to worry about living in a clean, neat home, nor do you have to worry about sanitation issues, healthcare, or running water.
These things are not in your daily worries.

THEY ARE A DAILY REALITY FOR PEOPLE LIVING IN IRAQ.

The cities are lined with sewage.
What about the women who are beaten by their own countrymen? That's okay with you? They deserve it?
Everytime an infrastructure that WE are building is almost finished, someone fucks it up. (That would be your Muslim brethren, btw, doing the fucking it up.)
Kids are regularly receiving aid at United States Army field hospitals in Iraq because of car bombs and hidden IEDs.


But all of that is okay with you.


And we're the ones doing it.

Right.
Grow up.
Get your head out of the liberal sand it's buried in, take a look...a REAL look around at what is being done there and who is perpetuating the violence then see if your perspective changes.
 

Lalli

Well-known member
look im not saying i dont agree with how they live, but its cause loads of retaliation and more and more suicide attacks, more and more foreigners getting captured and killed. its a never ending situation. nothing will change it. ever
 

Shimmer

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lalli
look im not saying i dont agree with how they live, but its cause loads of retaliation and more and more suicide attacks, more and more foreigners getting captured and killed. its a never ending situation. nothing will change it. ever

So that makes it okay.
 

Lalli

Well-known member
and wtf do you mean by "your muslim brethren" do you not listen to what i say? THOSE WHO KILL IN THE NAME OF ALLAH IN THIS SO CALLED JIHAD ARE NOT AND I REPEAT ARE NOT MUSLIMS IN MY EYES" so dont you dare say they are MY muslim brethren
 

Lalli

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmer
So that makes it okay.

no matter how much help that country gets there are evil people there who will carry on with these actions. and cause more and more aggro
 

Shimmer

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lalli
no matter how much help that country gets there are evil people there who will carry on with these actions. and cause more and more aggro

So it's okay.
 

Lalli

Well-known member
and wtf do you mean by "your muslim brethren" do you not listen to what i say? THOSE WHO KILL IN THE NAME OF ALLAH IN THIS SO CALLED JIHAD ARE NOT AND I REPEAT ARE NOT MUSLIMS IN MY EYES" so dont you dare say they are MY muslim brethren
 

Shimmer

Well-known member
it doesn't matter if they're muslim in your eyes, they profess to follow the muslim faith.
Much as Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell profess to be Christians.
 

Lalli

Well-known member
so its ok for YOU to make an assumption and say they are MY brethrens, when ive repeadtly said i have no importanct for them. you just proved how narrow minded and disrespectful you are towards other peoples views.
 

Hawkeye

Well-known member
Wow. Lalli, darlin, I love you to peices but some of your comments have been wow. There have been no rapes and murder, Guantanomo bay, even our politicians have gone down there said it was like a five star hotel compared to what americans get, and as for Abu Gharab-that goes back to how you are screaming about how horrible it is that a large amount of people get judged for one situation that is bad that only a handful did (IE: Don't you hate it when people say that almost all terrorist are Muslims because of situations that happened in the past? 9/11, suicide bombers etc?)

It's the exact same thing. And quite frankly those who DID do all that stuff in abu gharab have been severly punished.

Furthermore, it amazes me that the templet continues to grow and I'm not saying this because I'm a right winger (as a matter of fact I'm a die hard libertarian) but it is evident-if it makes the US, George Bush, or Tony Blair look bad- then it will air on TV.

Seriously, why do we never see anything good about Iraq? Why do we never get to see the schools that are being built or the encouraging situation from where it was? Why? Because it makes the free world look bad.

I am almost tempted to say, and actually I will, even though there is great division among our peers in the international world-there is also a lot of division at home (US and England) and quite frankly, if there were not that division at home-I could almost guarentee you that the job would be done by now, we would not give those Al Queda members room to think well yeah theres a lot of dissention in the US so if we keep doing this the next guy will withdraw from Iraq so we can take over.

They see this, they see the message we're sending. If everyone in congress actually stood up and said we'll get this done, period, then I would guarentee you the war would've been over in 3 years tops, but because it's taking longer, we have people who are signaling that they dont want this to happen in our own countries, that is why the war is taking so long.

The people on here may disagree with me, but if we look at situations like WW1, WW2 where everyone stood up and said we gotta stop this vs. Vietnam (which we should've never been there anyway but the military did a good job regardless) where we had pretty much the same situation where people are saying get out all that stuff....

well you see a trend. Unity conquers and takes care of the situation. A house divided, it makes things a hell of a lot harder
 

Shimmer

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lalli
err hello? u stated the names of 2 soldiers WHO DONT ENGAGE in such activity and i said they are two of thousands out there, doesnt mean ALL of them are angles as the 2 you quoted

Christopher Thomas Gowens
Eduardo Juarez
Ian Flanigan
Shannon Epperson
Todd Morris
Blake Beagle
Joseph Quintero
Ramil Mills
Brandy Bailey
Cristian Alfaro
Gus Martinez
 

Dizzy

Well-known member
Normally I'm a lurker, but I feel compelled to respond here.

This war is about so much more than oil. Heck, if it were truly about oil I wouldn't be paying $3.26 for a gallon of gas. This war is about someone finally having the courage to do what's right, to help a situation that the world has turned a blind eye to for far too long.

Saddam Hussein commited genocide, that's considered a crime against humanity, which he was finally indicted for on 5/16/2006. Now when you take into consideration that he was in power since 1979, you can just imagine how long of a regin he had to do as he pleased. Just imagine how many people he killed, had murdered, and how many we'll never know about. They've found mass unmarked graves in Iraq- isn't that eerily similar to what the Allies found around 1945? So how can someone suggest that this is simply about oil? You can't sit here and tell me that you feel nothing for these people. To live in fear from 1979 until today- it's something we who live in western nations can't really imagine, not to that level at least.

Nor can you claim that Hussein's feelings aren't directed towards Britain and America. Those closest to him have said that he had an almost obsessive-hatred towards America. His own personal doctor recently did interviews about it, as well as some of his family members. If I can find the links again I'll post them for you.

And you claim that just because Hussein's anger was towards Shia's and not Americans that we shouldn't have sent troops in. Well, what if that anger was towards Britain instead of Shia's? Should we not have protect the British from cruel and unusual punshiment just because they're not American? By that logic, murder and torture are fine as long as they're not committed against your own people? Would you have told the victims of the Holocaust that it's not your problem since you're not directly effected by it? Or how about the one million people killed in the Rwandan genocide that happened around 1994? Or how about the Armenians who were killed in the Armenian genocide? Or is that not your problem, since you weren't involved?

First they Came for the Communists
by: Martin Niemoller

First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out - because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak out for me.


There's no way that you can claim that there is no emotion involved- this is ALL about emotion. We feel the need to protect others from atocrocies like this. This is more than just politics. If this were simply about politics we would have done as Germany and France did- waited for someone else to bring down the Iraqi government and then demand to be part of the rebuilding process. They didn't want to destabalize their economies any by helping take Hussein down but they want to improve those same economies by reaping the benefits of someone else's work. I call that cowardly and unfair. And there's no way that this isn't about emotion- I was seven in 1994 when the images of Rwanda flashed across my television and I still remember them. I was five when the WTC was bombed the first time and my mother worked there when it was bombed- those images are still burned in my memory. I was fourteen when my city's skyline changed forever and left a gaping hole in the sky, symoblic of the gaping hole left in most American's hearts when so many people died and are STILL dying of the effects of September 11th. We retaliated the only way we knew how- we aggressively attacked a problem that had been in our scopes for years but had a leader that refused to properly address said problem. I'm sorry, but you're wrong. We're a nation that leads with our heart regardless of what the rest of the world says. And we're leading with it once again in this situation.

And there are many more than just two or three grateful Iraqi's. My oldest brother is currently serving his second tour in Iraq through the USAF, and he sends home every letter that he gets from an appreciative Iraqi. I have two medium-sized boxes filled to the brim with letters, and have just started my third for him. He sends home pictures with kids who will walk up to him and hug him just to show him their appreciation. He's sent home pictures that these kids draw, most of which depict him as a hero- which he is. I agree when you claim that some of our military members have acted in ways that are unbecoming, but there are always a few bad apples in anything you do. You can't claim that the actions of few are representative of the entire military. That's insulting- moreso than you can ever imagine. Those "bad apples" are being dealt with appropriately, but do not generalize these brave and noble men and women. Thank them, if anything, for they are doing what you claim isn't necessary, but what we know is right.

Going into this war we knew it was going to be a long and drawn out affair, but you can't just knock down the infrastructure and leave. It would be a free-for-all; there would be more dead than there are now. Even the liberalist of politicians agree with that, if albeit reluctantly.

And again, to prove that this is more than just about oil, you claim that America is an "oil hungry nation." Well, yes, we do rely on oil more than other countries, but we also have MANY untapped reserves in the US. There are oil wells under Colorado that we haven't touched, not to mention the Alaskan oil and the oil off of the east coast of the US (not in international waters- in US waters no less). We buy foreign oil to help other economies- we could easily use our own. So please stop with the "this war is about oil" comments, becasue this is so much more than that. The media spews that rhetoric because they have very few legs to stand on and they know that the average citizen will buy up what's on the news, because the news doesn't lie. But it's all slanted liberally- if you look at this situation from a neutral standpoint you'll see that there are so many facets to this problem that it can't just be about oil or about politics- it's so much more.

For the record: Kanye West *IS* a joke. Aid was so slow because the mayor and governor of Louisiana didn't ask the federal government for help- which is proper protocol in instances of disasters. They didn't ask until it was too late, nor did they mandate the evacuation until Katrina was a few miles away. In cases of hurricanes you have to move ASAP- you can't wait until the clouds start rolling in. Especially when these people are WELL AWARE that the city of New Orleans is built well below sea-level, and that the levees are only built to sustain a catagory 2 hurricane; not to mention they were built when the French still owned the territory in the 1800s. Those levees were crumbling anyway- but again, the state government didn't do a damn thing to fix it. Kanye West had no idea what he was talking about- he saw things as "they're not helping us because we're black," when white people and hispanics were there too. It was a problem for Louisiana to deal with first and foremost, and as nasty as it sounds to say it, it wasn't really the government's responsibility until LA asked for help. You can only blame Nagin and the governor (whose name escapes me at the moment...my apologies) because everything leads back to them.

In refrence to poverty and 3rd world debts: to put it simply, it's not the US's responsibility. I do not want my tax dollars going to solve someone else's problems when we have so many problems ourselves- we have our own homeless and poor to deal with, we have an influx of illegal immigrants who are putting a strain on our social programs, we have children who graduate yet can't read, we have citizens who can't speak English here. We have to solve our problems first before we can solve anyone else's.

Now back to the problem with Hussein: this all started because he refused to let UN inspectors into his country to properly inspect the Iraqi weapons installations. He did this for YEARS, although it was required by the treaty that ended the Persian Gulf War. We took such a vested interest because we realized how much of a threat he posed since we weren't sure if he was exporting weapons of mass destruction or if he was cooperating with terrorists. You can surely understand how much of a realistic fear this became after 9/11 after they used commercial planes as weapons.

And again, you can't just claim that because we're going to face resistance that we should just stop. At this point, we can't just stop- we have to keep fighting for these people. You can't knock something down without rebuilding it and that's our goal. We want these people to live the lives they want to live, not live in fear of their government. We can no longer turn a blind eye to this situation it effects everyone and will continue to do so until this problem is solved. We can't pretend that this crimes against humanity didn't occur, or else what have we truly learned from wars past?

For the record: I don't pretend to agree with how this war is being run, but I support it wholeheartedly. Someone's got to do what the rest of the world won't.
 
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