Lalli, it's not nitpicking, it's debating. You're entitled to your opinion, as you so remind us quite a few times through this thread, as am I. My post never once stated anything to do with his religion, so you bringing up the fact that he's Muslim is a moot point since it had absolutely nothing to do with my post. I'm not about to debate religion, my dear, only the war.
Suicide bombings started LONG before the war in Iraq, before 9/11, before the first WTC bombings. It's a sad fact that suicide bombings have been common in that area for a long time, hence you can't blame that on the Iraqi War.
And you *did* say that Saddam's feelings were NOT towards America:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lalli
husseins real reasons are his feelings towards Shia muslims. a sect of muslims. not americans not british not asian. Shia's. so the need for troops is not needed.
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Which is the reason I brought up the facts that I did. And America didn't go to war with Iraq over 9/11, that tragedy was only one of the factors that encouraged America to take a stand. I clearly remember in the months before 9/11 America was one of the nations that was putting pressure on Hussein to allow UN weapons inspectors into the country, and to allow them to have the freedom necessary to do their job. Hussien refused multiple times, and the US had proof that he was moving the same weapons that he
was not suppose to have in the first place to other installations every time the UN inspectors would go. This wasn't in retaliation for 9/11, this wasn't some personal vendetta, this was the simple fact that there was proof that Hussein had weapons that he was strictly prohibited from having in accordance with the treaty that ended the Persian Gulf War. Please, look into this a lot more than just newspapers and television. This isn't even scratching the surface of the reasons for this war.
I
NEVER said that it was okay to generalize Muslims- please, don't stick words in my mouth that don't belong there. And I *did* read your posts, which is why I'm a bit confused here. You claim that I didn't read your posts, yet I'm not the only one who got the impression that you were insisting that it was only a few good soldiers. Perhaps it was a bit of confusing phrasing that was to blame here?
But honestly, you are crossing the line with your Quote:
| Not all soldiers are bad but then again none are good |
comment. I never made a comment as rude as that to you, and I'm having a civil debate with you, yet you sit there and make absolutely ignorant comments like these. Yes, as you remind us, you are entitled to your opinion, but it's a matter of decency and respect. Please, if you're going to post uninformed comments like that, this debate might as well be over since you don't respect other people's opinions. That entitlement goes both ways.
And there has always been bad press about America. When I was in Ireland in 1998 there was bad press, and I don't doubt that there still is. We've always been the recipients of bad press- but what does that really matter when it's coming from a liberally-slanted media? Remember, the press is still just trying to make money. Take what they say with a grain of salt.
Those documentaries that you mention that claim 9/11 was an "inside job" have all been put to rest. There are tons of conspiracy theroists, and people create what they want to, just as they believe only what they want to. But I can say that I saw first hand two planes fly into the WTC, and the black boxes of all of the recovered planes confirm that it was not done by the American government. If you'd like, I'll find the links to these (still not sure on the policy about posting links yet, that's why these are all link-free posts). They actually make for an interesting read.
And the reason why it's harder to find the culprits of 9/11 is because there we're not fighting Afghanistan, a physical country with a tangible government; we're fighting Al Queda, a terrorist organization, essentially an ideal. It's much harder to fight something that spans across several nations that publicly admit that they harbor and fund terrorists than it is to fight a government that has physcial boundaries.
And yet again, you rely on
media coverage, but this time it's for New Orleans. Yes, that was a disaster without a doubt, but you have to remember that even in emergencies it's best if proper protocol is followed. No matter how much you disagree with American policy regarding natural disasters it still finds its roots with the fact that the state government of Louisiana didn't do its job. You can't claim that the government was wrong just because you don't feel that how it acted was humane- as a pre-law student I can tell you that no American court would entertain those thoughts. How else do I know? The countless lawsuits that the victims of Hurricane Katrina have tried to bring against the government yet they mysteriously never make it to the papers. The media knows that those lawsuits will go nowhere since it was Louisiana's fault, not America's. Louisiana knew that the levees weren't going to hold, studies going back as recently as 2003 said that. They were first built about 200 years ago, then as time passed the state government of Louisiana would just "update" them. And they also knew well in advance that a catagory 5 hurricane was inevitable- the cold, deep waters of the Atlantic is where they form, they fly right over the flat land of Florida and into the warm, shallow waters of the Gulf of Mexico where they gain strength. This isn't the first time this has happened either- look up the Galveston, Texas hurricane of 1900. That's regarded as the deadliest hurricane in America's history, and Katrina followed a very similar path. This wasn't a surprise, this was a case of bad descisions on the part of the state government.
And once again you contradict yourself. You ask why America isn't taking care of its own problems first, but that's because our politicians are too busy trying to appease the world by helping out foreign nations. Then you mention that 3rd world nations aren't getting the help because we don't help them enough- to put it simply, I don't feel that we should be the sole supporters of 3rd world nations. We rely on ourselves, we fought for ourselves and we pulled ourselves up by our "bootstraps," now why is it that when we're on top everyone is asking us for help? We have to deal with our own problems and our own needs first and foremost, and worry about 3rd world nations second. We aren't the only nation that provides them with help yet we are usually the only ones publicly criticized for it, which is also wrong. America has to do what's best for Americans first, last, and always. We are the platform that this nation stands on, not those from other countries who criticize us.
And in regards to your last paragraph, I do believe I answered that above.
But you are right in saying that war isn't the answer to everything, but here I think it's the only answer we have. Talking to these people will do nothing, so the only action we have left is to make it physical.
but the thing is what we see is what makes us judge the situation, it may be a 5 star hotel according to politicans but since when have politicians ever told the truth? its annoying when people on here deny that such events havent took place i.e. rape, torture, violence, etc etc stuff which we see, soldiers taken to court, are they all publicity stunts? it happens theres always corruption whithin a group regardless of how angelic you think they are and they're doing a good job. Shimmer added loads of names to her list of soldiers whom are sin free but there are people who lie, when a couple of students were released from camp x-ray their views on the dirty conditions there makes you think hold on that isnt 5 star, are they lying? War will never end. corrupt people in this world will never back down. regardless of what faith or religion they are.
